Just remember folks, I called this. immortality.

[Κracus]

There's nothing emotional about this, it's a purely academic discussion. I (and I'm sure GFY) aren't saying that we wouldn't want this done - as in DooMer's scenario, I'm totally for that, sign me up. It's just that many people don't understand that "you" would in fact be dead, but your legacy will live on as an immortal digital copy of one's self. It's one thing to be okay with copying one's self, it's another to understand the implications of what the process entails.

I like that idea as well but I think that it's possible to transfer consciousness to a machine as opposed to simply copying it. On a lower scale, as GKY indicated we do that already.

[TruthfulLiar]

i'm thinking something along the lines of its metabolic rate or someshit. a fly lives like for a few days? but its perception of the outside world "its internal clock" is somewhat experiencing time and space in a totally different rate than we do. Ever thought why they are so damn hard to catch off guard?....so I'm guessing the opposite is true for tortoise

yeah... not a science major here, but I assume that having higher metabolism makes for a shorter lifespan and vice-versa. not sure tho. and also not sure if that affects a perception of time.

[Tsakali]

yeah I might be blaming the wrong thing here, but I am pretty sure that internal clocks differ from one thing to another. At a smaller scale even people have slightly diff. "internal clock" rates...I remember reading an article on this kind of study.

[Κracus]

I would definitely agree with that after playing Quake 3 against Julios.

[GONNAFISTYA]

yeah I might be blaming the wrong thing here, but I am pretty sure that internal clocks differ from one thing to another. At a smaller scale even people have slightly diff. "internal clock" rates...I remember reading an article on this kind of study.

I once heard that, regardless of lifespan, the heart beats the same amount of times for all species (fast heart rate for something that lives a day vs a slow heart rate for something that lives for more than half a century). Dunno if it's true and I never bothered following up.

[TruthfulLiar]

Would be good to know all those things.

Edit: Wait, I just read what you said. Not sure if I believe that all species have the same number and an equal amount of heartbeats in their lifetime. That does not make sense. I would think that the heart beats roughly as much as is needed for the mass of the creature.

Still not sure if the heartbeat has anything to do with perception of time, but I'm willing to say it does more than metabolism. Consider when you hold your breath, under water or whatnot, and yeah it does change. Everything changes. Heartbeat and thoughts.

So basically, if that is true, then some flies just have a day to live. Fuck No wonder bugs are chirring like mad, they all know they're going to die and they want nookie before their time's up.

Apart from the body feeding and acting as a sensory input and output system for the brain, probably don't need it if you have something else to plug it into. Brain just needs, what?, amino acids and sugar to survive?

Just checked Wikipedia:

In humans and many other species, the brain gets most of its energy from oxygen-dependent metabolism of glucose (i.e., blood sugar).[73] In some species, though, alternative sources of energy may be used, including lactate, ketones, amino acids, glycogen, and possibly lipids.[78]

[Κracus]

yeah I might be blaming the wrong thing here, but I am pretty sure that internal clocks differ from one thing to another. At a smaller scale even people have slightly diff. "internal clock" rates...I remember reading an article on this kind of study.

I once heard that, regardless of lifespan, the heart beats the same amount of times for all species (fast heart rate for something that lives a day vs a slow heart rate for something that lives for more than half a century). Dunno if it's true and I never bothered following up.

Yeah I'd call shenanigans on that one and being called out by me is like losing to a mini in an F1 race car.

Heart rates are different even between individuals let alone a species. What about giraffs? Don't they have like 4 hearts or something? At one point my heart rate was 48 beats per minute so would that mean I'll live longer? Nevermind that actually that probably does mean that... but that's just a coincidence.

[Tsakali]

it's meant as a general rule when all other things considered being equal...lifestyle, over all health and what not.

[TruthfulLiar]

yeah I might be blaming the wrong thing here, but I am pretty sure that internal clocks differ from one thing to another. At a smaller scale even people have slightly diff. "internal clock" rates...I remember reading an article on this kind of study.

I once heard that, regardless of lifespan, the heart beats the same amount of times for all species (fast heart rate for something that lives a day vs a slow heart rate for something that lives for more than half a century). Dunno if it's true and I never bothered following up.

Some Hindu yogis believe that an individual has a certain amount of breaths. And that there could be a specific number.

[mrd]

Reality is maya. There's only one consciousness, the collective human one. The body (including the brain) is merely an access point, with every person acting as a branch or facet of this collective consciousness. Birth, life and death play no role in its existence (unless everyone dies), only in its overall form and content. The greatest fallacy of mankind is that we have been unable to recognize our own cyclical nature and out-grow our predecessors notions of greed and self-righteousness. That so many people are crushed under authoritarian views, denied access to basic rights, learning, self-inquiry, and are using their bodies merely as machines to generate money for somebody else is testament to this fact. Cybernetic consciousness may be just the thing we need to free ourselves from the shackles of the reptilian mid-brain and emerge into a new horizon of human existence. As for why humans possess a self-aware consciousness.... "strange loops!" Do some digging around re: human consciousness and, as usual, the harder you look, the more fucked up things appear to be.

On a less esoteric note: there's always the notion that natural death is merely caused by a slow metabolic breakdown. So I wonder if we couldn't achieve immortality via some natural process whereby all nutrients and enzymes are maintained at optimal levels? If you do some reading on health nuts that only ever drink fresh-pressed fruit and veggie juice, eat only raw foods and rarely eat meat, you might notice that a lot of them live to be very old... into the 90's and even 100's.

As for the thought of "why the fuck would I want to live forever?", well, why not? People who ask this question are spineless if you ask me. How bad-ass would it be to be that wise old dude who has been alive for 844 years? Pretty bad-ass.

[Transient]

Tsakali, the question is what would happen if there was a teleporter accident and the original copy was not destroyed? There would be two of you. Which one is the "real" one? Which one should we destroy to maintain continuity?

If we destroy the original, "you" are in fact dead. Instead, you have a duplicate running around who looks and behaves exactly like you, but as far as you're concerned isn't really you.

Queue the uncontrollable urge to kill your self (not yourself) to restore balance. If you killed your self, would you be committing murder or suicide? For that matter, would the act of simply using a teleporter be committing suicide? Could the inventor or the controller be charged with murder when someone uses their teleporter? What happens if there's a glitch and all the networked teleporters spit out a copy of you, and suddenly there are 1,500 DooMers running around?

Noooooooooooo!

[Transient]

As for the thought of "why the fuck would I want to live forever?", well, why not? People who ask this question are spineless if you ask me. How bad-ass would it be to be that wise old dude who has been alive for 844 years? Pretty bad-ass.

Not that badass if there's a billion other 844-year-olds.

[mrd]

As for the thought of "why the fuck would I want to live forever?", well, why not? People who ask this question are spineless if you ask me. How bad-ass would it be to be that wise old dude who has been alive for 844 years? Pretty bad-ass.

Not that badass if there's a billion other 844-year-olds.

Maybe, but we still haven't ruled out death via external means.

[Κracus]

I'm surprised mrd, would you classify your beliefs as a form of pantheism? I do.

I'd also add that although there is only one consciousness what other creatures experience is also consciousness. the tool (their bodies) they use to harness it though isn't as evolved as humans are but it's consciousness nontheless.

To go even deeper, consciousness is the foundation of what we see as our physical universe. IE: without consciousness there would be no universes.

[Κracus]

As for the thought of "why the fuck would I want to live forever?", well, why not? People who ask this question are spineless if you ask me. How bad-ass would it be to be that wise old dude who has been alive for 844 years? Pretty bad-ass.

Not that badass if there's a billion other 844-year-olds.

Have you not seen the highlander? It's pretty badass.

[plained]

Just remember folks, I called this. immortality

hhoe man

that is some serios comedy

[Κracus]

search for the date 2045 in this forum and you'll see how long ago I brought this subject up.

[Tsakali]

no results

[losCHUNK]

Prison sentences will become a whole load easier

edit [oopsy]

[Scourge]

no results

Nope, nothing.

[mrd]

I'm surprised mrd, would you classify your beliefs as a form of pantheism? I do.

Not really sure, I've never thought to classify it. Reading up on pantheism, it seems similar I suppose, but I'm not sure why there's a need to bring God into it. Even though in this case it's a different usage than is most common, it seems redundant. I'm God, ffs.

[TruthfulLiar]

lol hippies.

[Κracus]

I'm surprised mrd, would you classify your beliefs as a form of pantheism? I do.

Not really sure, I've never thought to classify it. Reading up on pantheism, it seems similar I suppose, but I'm not sure why there's a need to bring God into it. Even though in this case it's a different usage than is most common, it seems redundant. I'm God, ffs.

Yeah that's exactly how I see it too. I don't particularly care if it's already been given a label however when reading up about a subject that's already been fleshed out previously by scholars you often find concepts and ideas that although were in the back of your mind weren't fully fleshed out. It adds structure to ideas you have, much like epistemology did for me when I started wondering how I knew that I knew.

[seremtan]

Prison sentences will become a whole load easier

edit [oopsy]

not really. if someone was given 25 years without being allowed to take their eternal youth tablets inside, that could count as a death penalty - problematic in countries without the death penalty (i.e. the civilised ones)

[Κracus]

I could see death by aging as an acceptable punishment even though I'm opposed to the death penalty.