Lens Flares

[Dark Metal]

Oh yeah, he mad.

[Delirium]

Skin is right, you can "fake" the effect as we all know in a portalsky. It would be quite easy.

[obsidian]

I think it was Hipshot who did that with portal skies. But it was still just a static rotating sprite in the sky representing the sun. It wasn't the camera lens flare that changes angle and length dynamically as the player faced different directions. You can fake the first halo around the sun, but not the subsequent camera flares. There isn't a shader function or entity in Quake 3 to deal with positioning a surface relative to the player's PoV. That's why I'm saying creating the same effect just isn't possible, the lack of a useful function to exploit is completely absent. Again, I'll be quite happy if someone can prove me wrong, but just saying that you think it's possible without some sort of working proof of concept doesn't get us anywhere.

[skinNCNmaster]

NOTE: this is not related to making the lense flare for a sun..that would involve placing copies of this ALL over the map.. and afaik.. i'm going to ferment the sun concept for a while and brew another idea.. AND im not actually making this thing now.. im busy with my own map. So excuse me if i only put the initial proof effort into this thing... i will come back to this.. theres a hundred bucks rigged to bail.

lense flare type effect - proof of concept:

entity group one(four SIMPLE PATCH MESHES

note: entity is akin to the shield popups in pn03, triggered by entry into a trigger brush shaped to cover the point of view angles of the light object

[o'dium]

Looks like you don't understand how flares actually work, or understand what it is that needs to be done. So, show us your implementation working in a sample map.

Until then you can draw all the pictures in the world with unicorns shooting shit out of their arse, it makes no difference.

[skinNCNmaster]

sounds like you dont like me or care if it makes sense or not. seems like you dont have the balls to help in any way or even try. Seems like you came here to insult me and assault me even if i leave you the fuck alone.

go away you flame baiter.

[Dark Metal]

Seems like you don't get it. Looks like you're some kind of moron.

[o'dium]

Seems like you have some really bad deep down issues. Seems that you have problems with taking other peoples views on board. Seems like you could own the entire forum who is laughing at you, simply by proving your point, yet you refuse to do so.

Your move, creep.

[skinNCNmaster]

sear eep!

[Kaz]

I think the point that skin is trying to make that is being glossed over is that the implementation would not exactly mimic the lens flare effect, but be "close enough" or "similar". The main limitation you would initially hit would be entity limits, because you'd be emulating a continuous engine effect with a discrete method. The implementation described above seems as though it might produce something similar to lens flare, but be way too much work to be worth even trying, which is what I think everyone else is saying.

[InsaneKid]

the real lens-flares
work fine on >>> "World of Padman" and "Alien Arena"! <:

But i have tested smth like that yet, too ...
cant remember ...

i used 2 cmds there, i think (to control lens-flares)
cant remember the MOD/ cmd ...
but i was very surprised, that it works ...

[Noruen]

Well. And does somebody know the name of the modification I was talking about?

And About your fight guys... It is simple. Obsidian and O'dium are guys who wants to do thigs "correctly" without "over-working" (with less Enthropy). SkiNC is guy who is trying to find ways how to do something without technological background.

BUT! I think approach of Obsidian is better. Yes I want(ed) len flares in my map, but without mess in my map. I know, that that mod I'm talking about was based on texture scripts and probably code changes. So, please, I don't want these over-working tips how to make mess in my map.

You can't always be right SkinNC. Self confidence is important, but not necessarily always best. And I'm not telling this because I have evil heart or what. It is my opinion.

And now, please.. what was the name of my probably fictive mod?

[InsaneKid]

u could also try "Nexuiz" or "Lokis Revenge" ...
but i think, i have tested this in ...
AHHH ...in HQ-quake3 ...the HQ-MOD!!! <<< (Y)

edit:
i think, it also works on "Q3Rally"!

[o'dium]

Insanekid, the issue with what you suggest is that it "requires" a mod to work. Remember its easy for anybody with a little coding knowledge to do this really. If the question was "help me mod some lens flares into Q3 so my map looks purdy" we could have pointed him towards that instead.

As for the original place you saw the effect Noruen, it was likely a mod you saw it in, but it wouldn't have been anywhere near as complex as the hack Skin suggested. Mods can make things a lot easier, even to the point of more than likely just adding a lens flare entity next to a light source and... boom goes the dynamite.

The suggestion skin said on the previous page is insane. Its overly complex, a lot of work, not exactly newb friendly but also (and this is the biggest issue) it WONT work like a lens flare that you require. At a quick glance the biggest flaw I can see is that it only changes (and changes very, very harshly I may add) on a single axis of rotation in relation to the origin, which of course is all well and good if you dont jump, or have different height levels in the map. The other issue is, again as I said, its so damn harsh in movement it has zero interpolation from the origin that it will jerk around a hell of a lot and fade in the wrong way. Thats not forgetting the fact that it has no depth fading so it will clip into every surface it can, or the fact that it wont work on a 90 degree bend as the effect will clip through the wall, or even that it wont fade out and change in relation to the players origin.... Lots of basic issues...

Anyway, after all this, the simple fact that remains is this:

You CAN hack a very poor mans version of the effect into a VQ3 map that anybody can play with no mods required, but its not great looking, and you are better off with a simple blended deform sprite. If you wanted to mod your own lens flare, pretty much anything is possible (including depth sprites or resizing of particles based on clipping planes), but again thats a mod (And a source mod at that as it requires new fragment and vertex program shaders).

So yeah... Thats that. Hopefully we can draw a line under it all now But I'm still waiting for Skin to show his uber hack that displays all this working as we need it to in VQ3. I honest to god will back down, apologise and have a lot of respect for the guy if he shows it and it works. I'll also have the same respect for him if he just admits he was wrong and that it didn't work.

But I'm betting none of the above comes true and he just goes off on an odd bible rant about how id software are clearly against him for it not working or something daft...

[skinNCNmaster]

realism is not everything. new things come from trying to do things others wont try because their standards are too high.

quake has a lot of untapped potential for artists wanting to do non standard things.

thanks for the biting append.

[o'dium]

Realism isn't everything quite right. But if I've been asked to paint an apple, people tend to be pissed when you present a canvas with an orange on it.

Thats the point you cant seem to grasp. What somebody wants, is what somebody wants. If its not what you think is correct, tough titties, because its not up to you as its not your request.

Think about that.

[skinNCNmaster]

you must apply that grasp to me as well.. i am a somebody who also wants. thank you much.

map $whiteimage

mm pretty effect.. funny so few of you do anything with them
[lvlshot]http://www.rave.ca/en/image/original/378411/[/lvlshot]

i made that in a3 hour ish perio with the teleporter as the base..
its animated and looks like a lens flare.. of a sort.. (its for my map, est felt like going the way of lensy effect)

sure thing..

the entity is six planes, three small one per axis and three large for the starburst

Code: Select all

textures/sncymdm1/green_telep
{ 
   qer_editorimage textures/sncymdm1/green_telep.tga
        cull disable	
        surfaceparm nomarks
        surfaceparm trans
        sort additive	
	  noPicMip
        {
	        
	        clampmap textures/sncymdm1/telep1a.tga
		blendFunc add
                //depthWrite
                tcMod stretch sin .3 0.1 0 .4
                tcmod rotate 69
                rgbGen oneMinusVertex
	}
        {
	        clampmap textures/sncymdm1/telep1b.tga
		blendFunc add
                //depthWrite
                tcMod stretch sin .3 0.1 0 .7
                tcmod rotate -96
                rgbGen oneMinusVertex
        }
        {
	        clampmap textures/sncymdm1/telep.tga
		blendFunc add
               // depthWrite
                tcmod rotate 20
	        rgbGen lightingDiffuse
	}
        {
	        clampmap textures/sncymdm1/telep.tga
		blendFunc add
               // depthWrite
                tcMod stretch sin .6 0 0 0
                tcmod rotate -20
	}
        {
		map $lightmap
		rgbGen identity
		blendFunc GL_DST_COLOR GL_ZERO
		depthFunc equal
	}
}

and

Code: Select all

textures/sncymdm1/starburst
{ 
   qer_editorimage textures/sncymdm1/starburst.tga
        cull disable	
        surfaceparm nomarks
        surfaceparm trans
        sort additive	
	  noPicMip
        {
	        
	        clampmap textures/sncymdm1/starburst.tga
		blendFunc add
                //depthWrite
                tcMod stretch sin .4 0.1 0 .2
                tcmod rotate 13
                rgbGen oneMinusVertex
	}
        {
	        clampmap textures/sncymdm1/starburst.tga
		blendFunc add
                //depthWrite
                tcMod stretch sin .3 0.1 0 .7
                tcmod rotate -31
                rgbGen oneMinusVertex
        }
        {
		map $lightmap
		rgbGen identity
		blendFunc GL_DST_COLOR GL_ZERO
		depthFunc equal
	}
}

the three images.. though mine are not very lens flare esque.. im sue with a very clear lense flare or three and a revised tcmod .. my application is a teleporter..


divide the image into four

ok now advance the typical.. thats worthless and a bad attempt and nothing at all like the attempt you didnt make,.

[fKd]

your map is too dark...

[skinNCNmaster]

and your comment is tooo bright

[TTI]

skinNCNmaster: Sorry to be a party pooper, I would never want to ruin anyone's personal crusade against sanity, but I still can't see a .map file. I'm sure Noruen is eager to see how you pulled it off. This thread is awesome, I've shown it to a couple of friends of mine as well and they were equally impressed with the quality of your posts. Keep up the good work!

[o'dium]

I don't know what that is... Maybe you've some how looked into the event horizon of an imploding black hole or something... But thats 0% like any lens flare anybody would ever want to use.

Its nice as a random "effect" for "something" but totally unusable in any way, shape or form as a lens flare effect.

EDIT: Also, you are working with an old engine. Many people play this game with lower, older hardware still. 10 stages, for any material, is terrible. Yet here you expect people to use this on lights, which are all over the level...? Older rigs are seriously bad when it comes to fillrate, and this would bring older computers to its knees... Not to mention its ugly as sin.

EDIT2: It actually took me longer to make the screenshots for this but whatever. Less than a minute to write the material. Simple deform sprite around the main light source to fake tinted blueshift, then a simple deform tube that extends from it which contains a masked scrolling texture to simulate light bounce off of particles in the air. Like I said, less than a minutes work, limited overdraw, smooth frame rates all round and the best you can do with Quake 3. More importantly, it looks more like a light source and less like an alien took a nuclear shit:



NOTE: This isn't a lens "flare" effect. Those are impossible in Quake 3 without code changes. This is simply a light source effect that gives a volumetric look to the light source.

[MKJ]

thats not q3 tho is it?
looks excellent, even if it is faked

[o'dium]

Quake 3 supports deform tubes, sprites, blend func add and material stage scrolling. Nowt there that Q3 can't do, I just can't be arsed to map for Q3 and put it with its totally ancient compiling and lighting

[InsaneKid]

q3map2 also has a compile-option for this
>>>
-meta -flares -skyfix -v (first stage)

[o'dium]

Again, thats not for Vq3. Q3map2 simply supports that for compiling in other engines:

-flares
Enable support for flares. They are used to generate a glare effect over bright light sources. Only supported by certain versions of the Quake3 Engine like those used in Raven's titles or ioQuake3.