sick heel-toe vid

[zewulf]

Heel-and-toe is not more dangerous. It's actually the proper way to drive a manual. It's only more dangerous when you're doing it wrong (e.g., not matching the revs) or when your pedals aren't set up properly (e.g., too far apart), but when you do it right, it's actually safer. In fact, it'd be more dangerous if you don't do it in racing, not to mention the fact that you're gonna be slower. And technically, you should also double-clutch.

There are 3 fundamental reasons why you'd want to heel-and-toe:

1. it helps to stablize the car under braking (by going into the lower gears).
2. you don't go through the corner with the clutch disengaged (which affects the car's stability and behavior).
3. you'll already be at the right gear for acceleration at the exit of the corner.

Of course, in racing with a non-synchro gearbox, you could just left foot brake, and you'd never have to do all this heel-and-toe stuff, but the basic principle remains the same.

[zewulf]

btw

i can change gear just as quick

now you know you have to make a vid. Do a 6-5-4-3-2-1 heel toe

For technical reasons, you generally can shift much faster in a racing car with a racing gearbox than you can in a street car. You shouldn't really try to shift very fast in your street car anyway, because you increase the chance of damaging/wearing out the synchromesh prematurely.

I also don't see the point of going through every gear on the downshifts. It might help with stability when the braking distance is quite long (e.g., when it's wet), but I personally prefer to skip some gears.

[Guest]

btw

i can change gear just as quick

now you know you have to make a vid. Do a 6-5-4-3-2-1 heel toe

I also don't see the point of going through every gear on the downshifts. It might help with stability when the braking distance is quite long (e.g., when it's wet), but I personally prefer to skip some gears.

I was also wondering about why he uses all the gears, but then I understood why when I started doing it myself. He uses the engine's compression to brake and also its easier to rev-match and the downshifts are smoother when you go through all the gears since there is a much smaller difference between gear ratios.

If you're doing 150km/h in 4th and then you have to take a 60km/h turn, its much smoother and easier on the brakes if you downshift into 3rd before going into 2nd.

[werldhed]

Heel-and-toe is not more dangerous. It's actually the proper way to drive a manual. It's only more dangerous when you're doing it wrong (e.g., not matching the revs) or when your pedals aren't set up properly (e.g., too far apart), but when you do it right, it's actually safer. In fact, it'd be more dangerous if you don't do it in racing, not to mention the fact that you're gonna be slower. And technically, you should also double-clutch.

You're really suggesting it's safer to brake with only half of your foot to brake, while simultaneously revving the engine?

No.

[SplishSplash]

Heel-Toe is only useful for those who brake.

[zewulf]

now you know you have to make a vid. Do a 6-5-4-3-2-1 heel toe

I also don't see the point of going through every gear on the downshifts. It might help with stability when the braking distance is quite long (e.g., when it's wet), but I personally prefer to skip some gears.

I was also wondering about why he uses all the gears, but then I understood why when I started doing it myself. He uses the engine's compression to brake and also its easier to rev-match and the downshifts are smoother when you go through all the gears since there is a much smaller difference between gear ratios.

If you're doing 150km/h in 4th and then you have to take a 60km/h turn, its much smoother and easier on the brakes if you downshift into 3rd before going into 2nd.

In the really old days, maybe, but in this day and age, brakes are good enough that you shouldn't have to rely on engine braking to slow the car down. The engine braking effect does help with stability though. Also remember it's a lot cheaper to fix brakes than to fix engines. If you rev match correctly, skipping some intermediate gears can be just as smooth as going through all the gears. In the end, it's mostly personal preference.

[zewulf]

Heel-and-toe is not more dangerous. It's actually the proper way to drive a manual. It's only more dangerous when you're doing it wrong (e.g., not matching the revs) or when your pedals aren't set up properly (e.g., too far apart), but when you do it right, it's actually safer. In fact, it'd be more dangerous if you don't do it in racing, not to mention the fact that you're gonna be slower. And technically, you should also double-clutch.

You're really suggesting it's safer to brake with only half of your foot to brake, while simultaneously revving the engine?

No.

You're blaming heel-and-toe when you should be blaming your pedal setup. If your pedals aren't set up properly in the first place, then perhaps you shouldn't heel-and-toe. When set up correctly, you don't brake with "half" of your foot. With that said, it does take some practice to get the hang of it, but it also make it safer (as well as faster) when done right.

[SplishSplash]

Using the engine to brake is NOT good for your engine.

[werldhed]

Heel-and-toe is not more dangerous. It's actually the proper way to drive a manual. It's only more dangerous when you're doing it wrong (e.g., not matching the revs) or when your pedals aren't set up properly (e.g., too far apart), but when you do it right, it's actually safer. In fact, it'd be more dangerous if you don't do it in racing, not to mention the fact that you're gonna be slower. And technically, you should also double-clutch.

You're really suggesting it's safer to brake with only half of your foot to brake, while simultaneously revving the engine?

No.

You're blaming heel-and-toe when you should be blaming your pedal setup. If your pedals aren't set up properly in the first place, then perhaps you shouldn't heel-and-toe. When set up correctly, you don't brake with "half" of your foot. With that said, it does take some practice to get the hang of it, but it also make it safer (as well as faster) when done right.

I don't heel-toe. If my pedals were set up correctly, I still wouldn't (in everyday driving).

It doesn't matter if you're using the ball of your foot to brake and the arch to rev, or if your using true heel-toe, you're still dedicating one foot to two jobs.

Drafting might be a better way to save fuel, reduce engine strain, and accelerate more quickly, but that doesn't mean I want every dolt on the road to be doing it.

[Guest]

I also don't see the point of going through every gear on the downshifts. It might help with stability when the braking distance is quite long (e.g., when it's wet), but I personally prefer to skip some gears.

I was also wondering about why he uses all the gears, but then I understood why when I started doing it myself. He uses the engine's compression to brake and also its easier to rev-match and the downshifts are smoother when you go through all the gears since there is a much smaller difference between gear ratios.

If you're doing 150km/h in 4th and then you have to take a 60km/h turn, its much smoother and easier on the brakes if you downshift into 3rd before going into 2nd.

In the really old days, maybe, but in this day and age, brakes are good enough that you shouldn't have to rely on engine braking to slow the car down. The engine braking effect does help with stability though. Also remember it's a lot cheaper to fix brakes than to fix engines. If you rev match correctly, skipping some intermediate gears can be just as smooth as going through all the gears. In the end, it's mostly personal preference.

Well, all I can say is that dude driving the Porsche is a professional racecar driver and he know's what he's doing, therefore there are definately reasons why he goes through all the gears.

[Dr_Watson]

Heel & toe is only really useful for turbo'd cars anyway, and pretty dangerous to use on normal roads.

you couldn't be more wrong

and yes I use it all the time when I go in turns, more practice that way.

Well, obviously it's useful for all cars but with a turbo you need to keep the revs high- so it's more useful in that sense.

nj rebutting most of the foolish myths in this thread zewulf.
you also forgot to mention that if you don't rev-match in a RWD car; when the drive line jerks in a corner you have a very high probability of spinning out.

[Dr_Watson]

Using the engine to brake is NOT good for your engine.

what is your earthly reasoning for that?
as long as you're not overrevving the engine its not going to harm anything.
yes, its one extra shift of wear which will add up over time... but to think that properly downshifting a car is going to damage the engine is pure lunacy.