Now the truth is plain to see

[Foo]

That the reason Doom 3 was so 'moody' wasn't because they wanted to deliberately design the game to be very dark and mysterious.

No, it's actually because the engine can't handle more than a few lights hitting the same piece of wall.

Which is it nowadays id? Are you primarily making game engines you hope to resell, or are you primarily making games?

Because if you built and engine with such a specific flaw, it would appear to be the latter although the former is often stated.

Thus concludes my first foray into Quake 4 mapping.









(I'm not bitter)

[Geebs]

AFAIK if you're going to design a PPL engine, you're going to run into that problem.

[Foo]

Yeah I guess it's inherent. The D3 engine just feels like such a mess to me. It's slow as fuck and doesn't look very good, being the main point of my wanton frustration. More irritating is that it's still possible to do lightmap lighting for the game, but the editor/compilor etc don't support it themselves, you have to fuck with other apps to generate the lightmap...

odium mode... GO!

[seremtan]

i just uninstalled d3. what a load of shit

[MKJ]

wait, you only just figured that out? gg foo

[glossy]

Only a bad carpenter blames his tools.

[Foo]

True, but then the good carpenter picks good tools to start with.

You're saying the answer is to dump id and shift to a better engine such as Cry or Unreal?

I'm thinking stick with Q3.

[glossy]

i was saying you're crap, but i've never played d3 or q4 so i wouldn't know if they're any good at all.

as you were, internet-stalker!

[phantasmagoria]

Map for HL2.

[Foo]

Fuck HL2. I'm not interested in Singleplayer nor am I interested in non-Arena deathmatch.

Arena Deathmatch limits me pretty much to UT, Painkiller (HUGELOL), Quake 3, 4 and Warsow.

[booker]

id makes game to sell there game engines

[Foo]

id makes game to sell there game engines

On that belief then, if you're looking to make an engine that's marketable why decide not to bother implementing lightmap support?

With Q3 id retained vertex lighting support, and that proved to be a pretty good decision because for a long time vertex lighting gave many people a huge FPS boost.

Now we see an equivalent if not bigger performance issue with the latest lighting technology, but the backwards support for lightmap (which seems to me to make far more sense here than vertex did for Q3) isn't there.

[booker]

when they started the doom3 engine i bet they thought it was marketable. but with games like farcry beating them to the store and what epic has done with unreal engine 3 i can't think of any reason to use the d3 engine. just look at all the companys buying a ue3 license.

[Deathshroud]

Aren't the UE3 engine games at least a couple years away?

[phantasmagoria]

Arena Deathmatch limits me pretty much to UT, Painkiller (HUGELOL), Quake 3, 4 and Warsow.

HL:DM?

[booker]

Aren't the UE3 engine games at least a couple years away?

gears of war and unreal tournament 2007 are set for next year and both are using ue3.

[hax103]

Aren't the UE3 engine games at least a couple years away?

gears of war and unreal tournament 2007 are set for next year and both are using ue3.

uhh. so 1 company actually bought a UE3 engine license?

Foo: I would guess that ID is looking to the future and probably assumes that roughly the graphics power will keep doubling on a regular basis. So stuff which is slow today will be running at a reasonable clip in a year or so.

In principle, I actually find per-pixel, on-the-fly lighting to be much more elegant than other methods such as lightmaps...

Note that I don't think ID's engine is a gift from heaven either - I do want ***soft shadows*** but the DOOM engine doesn't do it...yet.

For those of us who are not graphics super gurus, which engines support soft shadows in an efficient and general way (meaning that trivial implementations might work for simple planar surfaces but not for projecting soft shadows onto in-game polygonal objects).

[booker]

uhh. so 1 company actually bought a UE3 engine license?

Atari Licenses Unreal Engine 3
Creator of Grand Theft Auto and Lemmings Chooses Unreal Engine 3
Buena Visit Games Licenses Unreal Engine 3
Gearbox Licenses Unreal Engine 3
Hi-Rez Studios Licenses Unreal Engine 3 for MMOG
10Tacle Studios AG Licenses Unreal Engine 3 for Elveon
Vivendi Universal Games Signs Studio-wide Unreal Engine 3 License
Namco Hometek Inc. Licenses Unreal Engine 3 for Frame City Killer™ on XBOX 360
NCsoft Licenses Unreal Engine 3
ACONY Licenses Unreal Engine 3
Silicon Knights to Exclusively Use Unreal Engine 3
America's Army Licenses Unreal Engine 3
TimeGate Studios Licenses Unreal Engine 3
Microsoft Game Studios License Unreal Engine 3
Midway Chooses Unreal Engine 3 for Next Generation Game Development
BioWare Licenses Unreal Engine 3

i think thats more than 1

[hax103]

Sure. How many bought Doom engines?

Atari Licenses Unreal Engine 3
Creator of Grand Theft Auto and Lemmings Chooses Unreal Engine 3
Buena Visit Games Licenses Unreal Engine 3
Gearbox Licenses Unreal Engine 3
Hi-Rez Studios Licenses Unreal Engine 3 for MMOG
10Tacle Studios AG Licenses Unreal Engine 3 for Elveon
Vivendi Universal Games Signs Studio-wide Unreal Engine 3 License
Namco Hometek Inc. Licenses Unreal Engine 3 for Frame City Killer™ on XBOX 360
NCsoft Licenses Unreal Engine 3
ACONY Licenses Unreal Engine 3
Silicon Knights to Exclusively Use Unreal Engine 3
America's Army Licenses Unreal Engine 3
TimeGate Studios Licenses Unreal Engine 3
Microsoft Game Studios License Unreal Engine 3
Midway Chooses Unreal Engine 3 for Next Generation Game Development
BioWare Licenses Unreal Engine 3

i think thats more than 1

[zewulf]

Aren't the UE3 engine games at least a couple years away?

gears of war and unreal tournament 2007 are set for next year and both are using ue3.

uhh. so 1 company actually bought a UE3 engine license?

Epic don't need to buy a license of their own engine

[zewulf]

uhh. so 1 company actually bought a UE3 engine license?

Atari Licenses Unreal Engine 3
Creator of Grand Theft Auto and Lemmings Chooses Unreal Engine 3
Buena Visit Games Licenses Unreal Engine 3
Gearbox Licenses Unreal Engine 3
Hi-Rez Studios Licenses Unreal Engine 3 for MMOG
10Tacle Studios AG Licenses Unreal Engine 3 for Elveon
Vivendi Universal Games Signs Studio-wide Unreal Engine 3 License
Namco Hometek Inc. Licenses Unreal Engine 3 for Frame City Killer™ on XBOX 360
NCsoft Licenses Unreal Engine 3
ACONY Licenses Unreal Engine 3
Silicon Knights to Exclusively Use Unreal Engine 3
America's Army Licenses Unreal Engine 3
TimeGate Studios Licenses Unreal Engine 3
Microsoft Game Studios License Unreal Engine 3
Midway Chooses Unreal Engine 3 for Next Generation Game Development
BioWare Licenses Unreal Engine 3

i think thats more than 1

Sony have also licensed UE3 to be included in the PS3 SDK.

[booker]

Doom 3, Doom 3: Resurrection of Evil, Quake 4, Prey and Enemy Territory: Quake Wars is all I know of. Four of those don't really count snice there id games.

edit: forgot Return to Castle Wolfenstein 2, another id game.

[stocktroll]

well this is what id gets for trying to stay small

[mjrpes]

This is what carmack gets for wasting his time building a crappy spaceship.

[Foo]

well this is what id gets for trying to stay small

True that. Evolve or die.