Tormentius wrote:
Its still very much the case. Users don't give a shit about tweaking and fiddling with their OS so it will work or recompiling their kernel.
if your avg shmuck can't get around in Ubuntu, then they just need to die. period.
There's getting about, and there's using it every day.
Linux is shit for desktop use. It's got a bit better, but it's still shit.
you're average user surfs and checks emails. there's very little chance of not being able to do that using Ubuntu or equivalent without being a complete retard.
p.s. i'm not DINGING MS, it's just an alternative, fanbois.
+JuggerNaut+ wrote:
p.s. i'm not DINGING MS, it's just an alternative, fanbois.
It is kind of an alternative, but not exactly a good one (yet). If I was to recommend any non-MS OS to a home user it would be a Mac running OSX since thats even easier to use than XP. Linux has gotten much better than it used to be but it still has a long ways to go in my opinion.
+JuggerNaut+ wrote:when was the last time you ran a live distro?
Tried RedHat out again about 6 months back. Like I said, its somewhat improved over the last few years but the Linux distros in general can't hold a candle to XP or MacOSX in terms of ease of use. I've got a friend whos a Linux systems admin and during a recent discussion he said the same thing in regards to Linux: great for servers, not ready for mainstream desktop usage.
Last edited by Tormentius on Mon Nov 21, 2005 9:42 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Tormentius wrote:
Its still very much the case. Users don't give a shit about tweaking and fiddling with their OS so it will work or recompiling their kernel.
if your avg shmuck can't get around in Ubuntu, then they just need to die. period.
There's getting about, and there's using it every day.
Linux is shit for desktop use. It's got a bit better, but it's still shit.
I find OS X shiter. Maybe it's just because I don't know all the shorcut keys (like I do windows / Linux). I tend to just find it takes twice as long to do something .
+JuggerNaut+ wrote:you're average user surfs and checks emails. there's very little chance of not being able to do that using Ubuntu or equivalent without being a complete retard.
p.s. i'm not DINGING MS, it's just an alternative, fanbois.
I think you have a skewed view of the average user.
In a business context, this may be the case. Mainly because people wont contact the IT department when trying to do something outside of their job.
I mean lets start with games. A lot of average users play games on their PCs. My dad loves flight sim. The last custom PC I built was for a family friend and she had an online poker game she needed loading on. Come to think of it, the one before that was for a farmer and he needed some scanning software and Who Wants To Be A Millionaire loaded on.
Sure. Average joe checks his mail, but to suggest he doesn't do anything beyond that ever is completely naive.
Lets not forget scanning, writing letters and printing them (installing printer drivers on ubuntu - fun!)
"Maybe you have some bird ideas. Maybe that’s the best you can do."
― Terry A. Davis
Not to mention how many users have Money or Quicken.
It's true that a lot of *NIX's functionality problems come from habits/compatibility - i.e. users are accustomed to doing things certain ways, and it would be a problem changing to ANY other OS that doesn't work exactly the same way.
But that's not the only problem. *NIX platforms simply have a much higher learning curve than the Windows family. People who have never used a computer before can sit down in front of a Windows PC, and with a few simple wizards they can be doing everything they really need to on it. That is not remotely the case with *NIX, no matter which distro you get. You can make statements all day long about how easy things *really* are, but that is coming from the perspective of a person who already knew their way around a computer before they started using *NIX.
+JuggerNaut+ wrote:you're average user surfs and checks emails. there's very little chance of not being able to do that using Ubuntu or equivalent without being a complete retard.
p.s. i'm not DINGING MS, it's just an alternative, fanbois.
I think you have a skewed view of the average user.
In a business context, this may be the case. Mainly because people wont contact the IT department when trying to do something outside of their job.
I mean lets start with games. A lot of average users play games on their PCs. My dad loves flight sim. The last custom PC I built was for a family friend and she had an online poker game she needed loading on. Come to think of it, the one before that was for a farmer and he needed some scanning software and Who Wants To Be A Millionaire loaded on.
Sure. Average joe checks his mail, but to suggest he doesn't do anything beyond that ever is completely naive.
Lets not forget scanning, writing letters and printing them (installing printer drivers on ubuntu - fun!)
i'm sure there are alternatives to those programs, but i'm sure not going to go looking for them.
ubuntu handles alot of printer drivers out of the box, but yes, for an older one you're prolly out of luck.
R00k wrote:Not to mention how many users have Money or Quicken.
It's true that a lot of *NIX's functionality problems come from habits/compatibility - i.e. users are accustomed to doing things certain ways, and it would be a problem changing to ANY other OS that doesn't work exactly the same way.
But that's not the only problem. *NIX platforms simply have a much higher learning curve than the Windows family. People who have never used a computer before can sit down in front of a Windows PC, and with a few simple wizards they can be doing everything they really need to on it. That is not remotely the case with *NIX, no matter which distro you get. You can make statements all day long about how easy things *really* are, but that is coming from the perspective of a person who already knew their way around a computer before they started using *NIX.
first off, there, again, are alternatives to money and quicken. it's not the community's fault that those programs are proprietary.
also, what are you on about with wizards? like i said, for basic computing tasks, your avg donut-head can get around just fine. of course if they go in thinking "man, this doesn't look or feel like windows at all!", they'll fail. thx Bill!
+JuggerNaut+ wrote:when was the last time you ran a live distro?
Tried RedHat out again about 6 months back. Like I said, its somewhat improved over the last few years but the Linux distros in general can't hold a candle to XP or MacOSX in terms of ease of use. I've got a friend whos a Linux systems admin and during a recent discussion he said the same thing in regards to Linux: great for servers, not ready for mainstream desktop usage.
not bashing your buddy, but the two linux server admins _i_ know, one of them never heard of Ubuntu, and the other was oblivious to live cd's. alot of these guys don't keep up with the times, even in their own field. it happens.
+JuggerNaut+ wrote:when was the last time you ran a live distro?
Tried RedHat out again about 6 months back. Like I said, its somewhat improved over the last few years but the Linux distros in general can't hold a candle to XP or MacOSX in terms of ease of use. I've got a friend whos a Linux systems admin and during a recent discussion he said the same thing in regards to Linux: great for servers, not ready for mainstream desktop usage.
not bashing your buddy, but the two linux server admins _i_ know, one of them never heard of Ubuntu, and the other was oblivious to live cd's. alot of these guys don't keep up with the times, even in their own field. it happens.
This guy does keep up, and his opinion is still that Linux isn't near ready for the average desktop user. Normal people don't want to know that much about their computer, they just want it to work. Running any flavour of Linux involves committing to a much steeper learning curve and becoming familiar with an entirely new and much less intuitive environment.
Does anyone think any Linux distro is ready for peeps who aren't computer savvy? Fluent computer users will not have problems but secretaries, parents, grandparents, etc, will prolly prefer XP imho.
In fact if I really wanted to hand Unix to my grandparents, I would give them a Mac.
Tormentius wrote:
+JuggerNaut+ wrote:
Tormentius wrote:
Tried RedHat out again about 6 months back. Like I said, its somewhat improved over the last few years but the Linux distros in general can't hold a candle to XP or MacOSX in terms of ease of use. I've got a friend whos a Linux systems admin and during a recent discussion he said the same thing in regards to Linux: great for servers, not ready for mainstream desktop usage.
not bashing your buddy, but the two linux server admins _i_ know, one of them never heard of Ubuntu, and the other was oblivious to live cd's. alot of these guys don't keep up with the times, even in their own field. it happens.
This guy does keep up, and his opinion is still that Linux isn't near ready for the average desktop user. Normal people don't want to know that much about their computer, they just want it to work. Running any flavour of Linux involves committing to a much steeper learning curve and becoming familiar with an entirely new and much less intuitive environment.
Tormentius wrote:
Tried RedHat out again about 6 months back. Like I said, its somewhat improved over the last few years but the Linux distros in general can't hold a candle to XP or MacOSX in terms of ease of use. I've got a friend whos a Linux systems admin and during a recent discussion he said the same thing in regards to Linux: great for servers, not ready for mainstream desktop usage.
not bashing your buddy, but the two linux server admins _i_ know, one of them never heard of Ubuntu, and the other was oblivious to live cd's. alot of these guys don't keep up with the times, even in their own field. it happens.
This guy does keep up, and his opinion is still that Linux isn't near ready for the average desktop user. Normal people don't want to know that much about their computer, they just want it to work. Running any flavour of Linux involves committing to a much steeper learning curve and becoming familiar with an entirely new and much less intuitive environment.
of course it's entirely new, and of course there's going to be a learning curve. much less intuitive environment? the only reason why windows is considered intuitive is because everyone's touched a windows GUI at some point. other than the big balloon start button, it's no more intuitive than a good linux distro to someone who's never been on a pc before.
AUSTIN - Texas Attorney General Greg Abbott today sued Sony BMG Music Entertainment as the first state in the nation to bring legal action against SONY for illegal “spyware.” The suit is also the first filed under the state’s spyware law of 2005. It alleges the company surreptitiously installed the spyware on millions of compact music discs (CDs) that consumers inserted into their computers when they play the CDs, which can compromise the systems.
+JuggerNaut+ wrote:
of course it's entirely new, and of course there's going to be a learning curve. much less intuitive environment? the only reason why windows is considered intuitive is because everyone's touched a windows GUI at some point. other than the big balloon start button, it's no more intuitive than a good linux distro to someone who's never been on a pc before.
People are used to Windows because its what they've been around and it works just fine. Normal users just don't care. Nerds can keep trying to convince themselves otherwise but MS isn't going to see a customer loss anytime soon.
I've had slackware set up on my parents computer for a while now. I put everything they need on there, no issues yet. It's really the same thing as when they had windows on there. click this icon to get to the internet, this for email, this folder for downloads.
+JuggerNaut+ wrote:
not bashing your buddy, but the two linux server admins _i_ know, one of them never heard of Ubuntu, and the other was oblivious to live cd's. alot of these guys don't keep up with the times, even in their own field. it happens.
This guy does keep up, and his opinion is still that Linux isn't near ready for the average desktop user. Normal people don't want to know that much about their computer, they just want it to work. Running any flavour of Linux involves committing to a much steeper learning curve and becoming familiar with an entirely new and much less intuitive environment.
of course it's entirely new, and of course there's going to be a learning curve. much less intuitive environment? the only reason why windows is considered intuitive is because everyone's touched a windows GUI at some point. other than the big balloon start button, it's no more intuitive than a good linux distro to someone who's never been on a pc before.
Yeah, but these days, where are you going to find someone who hasn't used a pc before? All the kiddies learn at school, so you'd have to have a whole school system running *NIX. The average homeowner learned at work or the library. Who's left? Third-world citizens?
The only people I can think of who would fit the bill would be grandma and grandpa, who learn to use a computer from (a) their nerdy grandchild, who probably isn't going to set them up on *NIX in the first place, or (b) the media, who are pushing XP and Macs anyway.
AUSTIN - Texas Attorney General Greg Abbott today sued Sony BMG Music Entertainment as the first state in the nation to bring legal action against SONY for illegal “spyware.” The suit is also the first filed under the state’s spyware law of 2005. It alleges the company surreptitiously installed the spyware on millions of compact music discs (CDs) that consumers inserted into their computers when they play the CDs, which can compromise the systems.
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