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E-cigs more harmful to immune sys than normal cigs

Posted: Sat Feb 13, 2016 9:15 am
by Eraser
Thought there were some devout vapers here. Pretty sure none of the following information will convince them to stop though...
Harvesting the genetic data from the participants, researchers looked at the activity of nearly 600 genes, all of which are related to controlling and mounting immune responses. Comparing smokers’ genetic information to that of non-users, the team found that the activity of 53 genes was dialed down in smokers collectively. Comparing e-cig users to smokers and non-users revealed the same dampened activity for those 53 genes but also 305 others—a total of 358 immune genes were muted in e-cig users’ noses.

In follow-up lab studies, Jaspers and colleagues tested e-cig liquid on immune cells from healthy volunteers. Specifically, the researchers collected immune cells, such as neutrophils and macrophages, that are responsible in part for swallowing up invading bacteria. When the cells were put into diluted solutions of different e-cigarette liquids, the cells weren’t as good at sucking in the microbes. The data, while preliminary, suggests that immune cells in e-cig users may be unable to prevent bacterial breaches, thus opening the gates to infection.

The researchers also looked at the gene-altering effects of different flavors of e-cigarettes on the cells in the delicate lining of the respiratory tract.
[...]
The point is driven home with one of the flavors, the butter-mimicking diacetyl. This flavor has been found in some e-cig flavorings, but it's known to cause bronchiolitis obliterans, a severe disease caused by scar tissue and inflammation built up deep in the lungs. The link was discovered years ago in food manufacturing, particularly microwave popcorn factory employees who developed “popcorn worker’s lung.”
Just stop that shit, people. It'll kill you.

http://arstechnica.com/science/2016/02/ ... cigs-dont/

Re: E-cigs more harmful to immune sys than normal cigs

Posted: Sat Feb 13, 2016 10:59 am
by seremtan
A concerning factor in e-cig use is that it’s not well known what or how much flavor additives and components are in e-cigarette liquid, Jaspers said.

The concern was echoed by clinical pharmacologist Neal Benowitz of the University of California, San Francisco. “E-cigarettes are not one thing,” he said, noting that the devices, liquids, and flavorings vary widely. “We’re really in the beginning of understanding the toxicity.”
i.e. due to the unregulated nature of e-cig ingredients, which vary from product to product and haven't been as well-documented as the contents of cigarette smoke, the effect could be caused by almost any of them. zero in on which ingredient(s) is/are the cause, remove them, and the problem is solved
It'll kill you.
you should work for the tabloids. you have a natural flair for scaremongering and misrepresentation

p.s. <- not a vaper (or smoker)

Re: E-cigs more harmful to immune sys than normal cigs

Posted: Sat Feb 13, 2016 3:11 pm
by Doombrain
This just in. Taking in chemicals is bad for you. Next up being killed kills.

Re: E-cigs more harmful to immune sys than normal cigs

Posted: Sat Feb 13, 2016 3:34 pm
by YourGrandpa
How anyone can think sucking on a fog machine isn't bad for you must be insane.

Re: E-cigs more harmful to immune sys than normal cigs

Posted: Sat Feb 13, 2016 6:22 pm
by lars63
Good thing I smoke a pipe rather than those nasty vaping products then

Re: E-cigs more harmful to immune sys than normal cigs

Posted: Sat Feb 13, 2016 10:12 pm
by seremtan
no it isn't. you're elevating your risk of mouth cancer vs an elevated risk of an infection

Re: E-cigs more harmful to immune sys than normal cigs

Posted: Sat Feb 13, 2016 10:41 pm
by YourGrandpa
Smoking is bad for you no matter how you do it.

Re: E-cigs more harmful to immune sys than normal cigs

Posted: Sat Feb 13, 2016 11:14 pm
by scared?
Lots of possible lurking variables in those fagot studies... Pathetic...

Re: E-cigs more harmful to immune sys than normal cigs

Posted: Sun Feb 14, 2016 12:12 am
by HM-PuFFNSTuFF
^ ecig user

Re: E-cigs more harmful to immune sys than normal cigs

Posted: Sun Feb 14, 2016 12:53 am
by xer0s
YourGrandpa wrote:Smoking is bad for you no matter how you do it.
Breaking news!!!

Re: E-cigs more harmful to immune sys than normal cigs

Posted: Sun Feb 14, 2016 9:14 am
by seremtan
it's probably worth noting that the cause of the effect noted in the study almost certainly isn't the actual nicotine in the vape or the water vapour

Re: E-cigs more harmful to immune sys than normal cigs

Posted: Sun Feb 14, 2016 5:15 pm
by Eraser
The thing is that e-cigs are marketed as a safe way to replace your smoking habit. Turns out that with the current crop of products out there, that safety remains to be seen.

The number of harmful ingredients may be limited, but if research like this isn't done and made public nothing will change. You'd have the tabacco problem all over again. People used to think smoking was safe as well.

Re: E-cigs more harmful to immune sys than normal cigs

Posted: Sun Feb 14, 2016 6:25 pm
by lars63
seremtan wrote:no it isn't. you're elevating your risk of mouth cancer vs an elevated risk of an infection
Some people try to take the fun out of everything, fess up, I bet you been talking to my doctor, stop it out!

Re: E-cigs more harmful to immune sys than normal cigs

Posted: Sun Feb 14, 2016 6:27 pm
by Transient
Eraser wrote:People used to think smoking was safe as well.
People used to think smoking was healthy.

And the same PR companies which peddled that bullshit are doing it again with climate change denial.

Re: E-cigs more harmful to immune sys than normal cigs

Posted: Sun Feb 14, 2016 9:36 pm
by axbaby
I traded a horrible addiction for something less horrible. I see it as win no matter what the ecig skeptics say.

Re: E-cigs more harmful to immune sys than normal cigs

Posted: Sun Feb 14, 2016 10:33 pm
by Doombrain
I bet you do, after all you swallow Trump.

Re: E-cigs more harmful to immune sys than normal cigs

Posted: Sun Feb 14, 2016 11:23 pm
by axbaby
Doombrain wrote:I bet you do, after all you swallow Trump.
Stop trolling me Doombrain

Re: E-cigs more harmful to immune sys than normal cigs

Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2016 3:06 am
by Transient
axbaby wrote:I traded a horrible addiction for something less horrible. I see it as win no matter what the ecig skeptics say.
The whole point of this thread is that it isn't less horrible. :offended:

Re: E-cigs more harmful to immune sys than normal cigs

Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2016 3:18 am
by losCHUNK
One has been proven to cause cancer amongst other things and the other may lower your immune system.

obv not smoking anything is the healthiest option but if it's trading one for the other what would you rather ?

Re: E-cigs more harmful to immune sys than normal cigs

Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2016 9:24 am
by Eraser
losCHUNK wrote:One has been proven to cause cancer amongst other things and the other may lower your immune system.
obv not smoking anything is the healthiest option but if it's trading one for the other what would you rather ?
Well, if every smoker would switch to vaping right now I'd see that as a win. Not because of their own health but because it's less of a nuisance to me. I hate sitting in other people's cigarette smoke. I assume vaping a cherry flavored e-cig won't cause the whole room to smell of cherry, or is that still the case?
Anyway, it may also prevent smokers from completely giving up their habit. The switch to e-cigs may cause a feeling of being victorious, worth of a proverbial pat on the back which might just indefinitely delay completely kicking the habit.

Re: E-cigs more harmful to immune sys than normal cigs

Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2016 9:54 am
by Flex Donkey
Smoking should be banned in public places.

Re: E-cigs more harmful to immune sys than normal cigs

Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2016 10:18 am
by Eraser
It should.
Here in the Netherlands they've banned smoking from indoor public areas, much to the dismay of quite a few smokers who feel they are being unfairly punished. The ban, however, doesn't extend to outdoor terraces for restaurants and such so it's really annoying to be eating a meal on a terrace only to have someone sit down at the table next to you and light up a cigarette. When you politely ask them to put down the cigarette you get all sorts of negative responses, all pretty much amounting to how it would be unfair to ask this of them because they can't smoke inside either.

Re: E-cigs more harmful to immune sys than normal cigs

Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2016 11:35 am
by Ryoki
If you don't want to inhale secondhand smoke when on a terrace you're free to go and sit inside. Why you would think it's okay to complain is beyond me, for the exact reason you've kindly already written down; where the hell else should they go? The terrace isn't yours just because you ordered food you know. I'm a quit smoker and i've never (not once) encountered anyone who complained about that, but i'd certainly tell you to fuck right off. Jesus, the gall of it!

It would make more sense complaining about the bastard two stroke engine scooters driving past the terrace...

Re: E-cigs more harmful to immune sys than normal cigs

Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2016 12:08 pm
by Eraser
Ryoki wrote:If you don't want to inhale secondhand smoke when on a terrace you're free to go and sit inside. Why you would think it's okay to complain is beyond me, for the exact reason you've kindly already written down; where the hell else should they go? The terrace isn't yours just because you ordered food you know. I'm a quit smoker and i've never (not once) encountered anyone who complained about that, but i'd certainly tell you to fuck right off. Jesus, the gall of it!

It would make more sense complaining about the bastard two stroke engine scooters driving past the terrace...
I see a terrace of a restaurant as part of the restaurant. The primary purpose of the terrace is to provide space for people to enjoy their meal. Smoking on the terrace has a serious impact on my ability to enjoy my meal. It should be banned.
If you're a smoker and you want a smoke, move yourself off the premise of the terrace.

Look, I'm not even complaining about people smoking on train stations, bus stops or while waiting in line at an amusement park. All those things are completely disgusting as well, but I would really draw the line at restaurant terraces.

For some reason, smokers really don't have any idea about how disgusting (second hand) smoke is. It's just as bad as if I'd sit right in front of you and start screaming at you for no good reason. No one would like that either. It's really funny that you say "Jesus, the gall of it", because smokers seem to have this feeling of entitlement. I guess this is in part due to them not realizing how disgusting their habit really is. But it's really strange to me that it should be OK for anyone to cause a serious nuisance to other people.

Re: E-cigs more harmful to immune sys than normal cigs

Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2016 1:21 pm
by xer0s
Just when I thought we had nothing else to argue about!