Decompiling id maps to convert to Reflex?

[AEon]

Someone brought up the topic on the Reflex forums about converting q3dm6 to Reflex. The obvious path would be to decompile the id's .bsp file and convert it to .map and then clean up the map in Radiant before converting it to Reflex.

My feeling is this is not actually allowed at all.

It might be possible to using the converted .map file as a template to then recreate every brush and patch in Radiant... thus faithfully recreating the map. And then convert that to Reflex. Though I also feel this would be borderline, since you are still duplicating a map and "ripping off an id design". The Reflex devs have been quite clear on the subject in general, they prefer maps specifically created for Reflex and no conversions (understandably).

I know that I would really be annoyed if someone did that with any my maps. Ironically I already did so for three of my own maps (owning the source did help ), so no one need bother with those three at least.

[cityy]

Both copying and recreating q3 maps for reflex would be illegal. Not only that, it would also be total fucking bullshit because reflex is not quake 3.

I saw someone playing aerowalk in reflex the other day and it made me want to

[phantazm11]

Cityy is correct. Even if they recreated the map from scratch, the design of the map is copyrighted by the original map author.

[Fjoggs]

I saw someone playing aerowalk in reflex the other day and it made me want to

Why exactly?

[cityy]

I saw someone playing aerowalk in reflex the other day and it made me want to

Why exactly?

Several reasons. On the one hand I think that aero is the allegory of stagnation in gameplay. The map has been figured out. It's not a bad map but it has provided all the entertainment value it could provide (for spectating). Every game on aero nowadays is a chain of algorithms which makes watching the game so utterly boring, especially since the map is already naturally hard to play out of control. It's gone so far that you see games where red is up 60 seconds because people can just go center map, deny rail and collect spawn frags until they run out of things to shoot. Of course I am biased since this is especially bad in QL (because of the ammo and armor system and the slower movement) but a lot of the symptoms apply to cpm and reflex as well.
That's just not what makes quake stand out to me; of course you can watch hal shoot crazy flicks on aero or phrantic all day but for how long? 10 years, 20 years? Maps like blood run or lost world still provide an actual interaction of both players where on can actively react to the game situation and where item pickups over 2 or 3 minutes actually mean something (speaking of QL again since those maps are not really playable in cpm as it seems, or maybe it's just not the kind of gameplay situation cpm wants to create). I can still watch those maps because the games actually offer variety (although I'd much rather like to see new maps simply because I enjoy making them and observing other people making them).

The second reason would be sort of a marketing thing. If I was the reflex team I would want to get as far away from looking like quake 3 as I possibly could. Imagine a review on kotakau saying, oh hey look, fast paced fps, AMAZING, the movement is essentially quake 3 and there are a lot of maps from quake 3 and so on and so forth, also there is a cool realtime coop level editor. What do you think the average guy will check out the game for? For the gameplay they already experienced 10 years ago? Probably not. Right now, the only interesting aspects of the game for me are the level editor (and the new maps that are created with it) and the engine which I thought looks quite promising. But what does the best level editor in the genre help if your game is bringing nothing new to the table. Is it supposed to be a popular fps or minecraft with nicer graphics? Right now I could rather see it turning out as the latter.
They might hook up some people with lobby systems, rewards, exp system or some sort of thing like that but what is the bigger picture? New, good ideas please! The stake gun was a modest (and crap) approach to spice things up but at least something is going on to make a difference as it seems.

[Fjoggs]

Remakes like that happen in every game though. This has nothing to do with the Reflex team's vision, it's just random users creating the same shit on a different day (or in this case, decade. aero was released two decades ago, jesus christ that makes me feel old ).
They can't really do anything about this, and why would they, it's creating more players for the game, because a lot of new players like to play in familiar surroundings with unfamiliar gameplay elements.

In regards to aero itself, it is a map that plays out so much better in a cpma/quakeworld/reflex movement style, as it has a very narrow and quick turn centred layout. This allows the losing player to nick items and weapons by simply outmanoeuvring his opponent, where as in a vq3 environment it's just not happening because it's too slow.

Either way, I'm one of the most vocal people in the Reflex community when it comes to creating new creations. I've never been a fan of bringing in old maps in a new game.

I find the stakegun interesting, but not for 1on1. It has potential for some great teamplay in modes like ctf, because you can use to block enemy flag carriers or set up a doublejumpescape to a higher route for your flag carrier. We'll see though, the game hasn't come far enough for strategies like that to evolve just yet. (CTF isn't even implemented)

[cityy]

Yes, you are completely right. I am just moderately frustrated the community (or some individuals) can't support the team in their vision and concentrate on new content.

I also agree on what you say about aero; I'm totally biased because it's just crap in QL and the relationship between me and the map is not positively influenced by that.

[Fjoggs]

There's good news though. 90% of the maps released on the forums these days are new. People also play the new maps over the old ones a lot.

All is not lost!

[Infernis]

That's good to hear. How's Reflex coming a long nowadays?