Q3 1v1 map

[dONKEY]

//Map gone final, updated link below

The obligatory screen shots:
[lvlshot]http://www.leveldk.co.uk/dk_dk/1.jpg[/lvlshot]
[lvlshot]http://www.leveldk.co.uk/dk_dk/2.jpg[/lvlshot]
[lvlshot]http://www.leveldk.co.uk/dk_dk/3.jpg[/lvlshot]

//UPDATED FOR FINAL BUILD
Download (about 12 mb):
CLICK

[cityy]

I gave the map a go, here are my suggestions:

Layout/architecture changes:
For me it feels like the scale of the map is not right. The RL area and the higher ledge feel twice as big as they actually need to be. The hallways are too small and their angles don't help the flow. In some of them I even bump my head when I jump and I also feel like running into corners all the time.
The RA area seems good but is too cramped aswell. Remember that the areas where the major items are located are also the areas where the fights happen - 128 units don't offer too much room for fighting. I'd also not put the RA on a pipe because it is pretty random.
For the YA room I'd suggest to add another entrance and give the room a more complex structure. Get away from the box room and add some vertical elements.
Item layout changes:
- replace PG with LG
- replace RG with PG
- put RG at the current LG place
- add another GA or YA (maybe on the RL ledge - would probably have to change the layout of the YA room if you decide to add it)

Looking forward to changes

[dONKEY]

Thanks for looking. I could quite easily add an architectural structure that links from the outside area into the YA room. Not sure how I could control vis there though.
I'm not too bothered about the height of the platforms in the outside area, but I am very concerned about the tightness of the RA side.
I think the connecting corridors can be lived with, but I went wrong in that area. Damn I wish I'd built this using 1.6's layer feature.

[VolumetricSteve]

Excellent texture work, I love the worn look and the green stuff on the bricks.

[dONKEY]

I've reworked the RA side of the map. The scale is better and some of the detailing improved. I never like the grate thing, so that's out for one. I think the architecture in that area makes more sense now.
Items have been moved about, and the map plays pretty well now.
The corridors are still short and tight, isn't much I can do about that now.
For the YA area I really wanted to do a broken floor for a second level, but there is no easy way to cut through from the main outside area as stupidly my archway bricked windows don't align between each area. Any thoughts how I could add another connection between the two areas?
I have one last question before I do a final beta/RC. I'm still keen on using the fat pipe where the RA used to sit for something. Is it acceptable to have a holdable tele in a tourney map? That would seem the kind of item that could go there.
Thanks for help/kind words thus far.
//edit:
Just remembered...
Could someone be so kind as to post the skip shader code please.
I somehow deleted/nuked mine..only just discovered this when I began trying to place some hints.
//edit....ignore skip shader request...I forgot it came with Q3map2. I am interested how my common.shader got over written though....odd.

[v1l3]

A map! Those textures are great ... very detailed. You mentioned lighting being dark. I set r_gamma "1.2" I don't know whether you can up the gamma by two tenths. 1.2 might even be too bright. It was a bit sluggish in the wide open part of the map, at least for me. Maybe it's the textures and my computer needs a good kick?

[dONKEY]

Thanks. I compiled light with gamma set to 1.2, maybe that's too much. I'll keep it at one for the last beta an see how that looks.
The slow down I noticed to. R_speeds are not too bad so I'm thinking it's the fill from all the steam sprouts. I looked with showtris on and there are hundreds of invisible sprouts moving about. Think I need to relook at particle studio. That will be one of the last things I do. There are couple if places I think I can improve vis with hints, so shouldn't be too much of an issue.
I've added a short stair case at the end of the yellow armour room, outside the room itself which leads up to a broken floor to make a second level in that room. Players can reach it via the new stairs or from the jump pad side. By raising the existing roof beams it fits quite nicely. Hopefully get a chance to finish up on Thursday, then I can start thinking about creating some assets for the MSG comp.

[dONKEY]

I have updated the first post,
Here is my beta2/RC1 for this level:
CLICK

Changelog:
* new level to the YA area
* rescaled the tighter areas (where possible)
* improved detailing
* Cleaned up the particle shaders
* changes to item layout
* improved vis
* changed light settings

Bots play is improved now, an frame rate much steadier.

Please delete any previous versions as the shader in this newer version will conflict.

Thanks again for any feedback.

[fKd]

dunno about that sky texture

[cityy]

I don't wanna sound harsh but I don't like how this plays.
The main problem I have with this is the flow. You constantly get stuck in corners, ceillings or arches. Realistic scales just don't work in quake3. Jumping around on a map in CPM is the best way to find out how well it flows (IMO). You will notice you have to slow down constantly which is bad. If it's slow in cpm already it will be reaaaally slow in vq3.
However, for your next map, plan better! Choose a good size for hallways (I tend to go for 192 units - note that smaller hallways can be strategically important - you can barely dodge rockets in small corridors and dont have much room to move in general). Also place your main items in areas that offer enough space for fighting. Current RA area still does not seem alright to me - attacking it from below is not really possible and around it there are plenty of stairs (q3 movement on stairs can be pretty akward - fights on stairs are often bad because you bounce around randomly). Be sure you have enough vertical variance in these areas to allow interesting fights and clever weapon choices and positioning.
The stairway up to the new YA room level is not really usefull imo. It slows you down a lot and does barely have any advantages over taking the JP. Also if you jump down the stairway you bump your head against the doorway. I see you were having concerns about performence when adding another path to the YA room. This is something you have to consider before building the map! Generally, all rooms should have 3 entrances or more to allow the player to make decisions depending on the game situation. Give the player some freedom!

Hope this doesn't sound harsh. If you want to discuss this I'd gladly be up for it.

[dONKEY]

Why so apologetic if that's how you feel
I know I can live with the top five maybe designers artistically, I know I can live with the top five technically. Always it's gameplay that lets me down.
I think this still stands however as an attractive, solid piece of work, and I'm still pleased with it.

[dONKEY]

OK...map gone final, ran out of time and energy now. Have updated link in first post.
I have also updated my own site (which I'd neglected for nearly 12 months), so it now reflects the maps I've made recently.
http://www.leveldk.co.uk