women in the workplace

[U4EA]

So, in a period of 4 months recently, we've had one woman at my office take off for maternity leave, another one get diagnosed with breast cancer, and then a second maternity leave. According to Australian law, their positions are meant to be reserved for them for up to 1 full year and at the end of the year, they can decide to come back with no repercussions whatsoever, or quit. The issue for us is they are on the whole, highly specialized positions, and so we can't just hire someone temporarily for a year. This basically hamstrings our work force, putting a lot of strain on everyone else. This is without yet considering paid maternity leave, which isn't a law here yet. I'm sure all you socialist Euro bastards have it worse.

I reckon, stay at home if you're planning on having kids. Companies should have the option of mandatory hysterectomies for women applicants/employees. Naturally, the woman should have the option to refuse, upon which the company should be able to refuse employment, or terminate the existing employee.

And if they aren't shitting babies all over the place, their tits are falling off. I haven't figured out a solution for this one just yet, but I'm working on it. Its impact isn't as bad as having a kid though.

So, who's with me, eh? Seething here

[MKJ]

lol

[Eraser]

Yeah I'll remind that when you're diagnosed with prostate cancer.

[Ryoki]

I feel your pain mr boobyicon

Had three preggos at once where i worked a couple of years ago, company nearly went bust because of it - because there's not much else you can do except hire new people to replace them whilst you keep paying the babby formers :\

And then the real fun starts when they come back and expect their old jobs back

[Nightshade]

Don't see what the big deal about the pregnancy is, they have to deal with the equivalent of pulling a ham through their nose, more power to them.
The medical stuff could happen to a woman or a man, so nothing much to bitch about there.
The problem I have is with women that take their maternity leave (six to ten weeks in the US) and then dump the kid with a nursery and go straight back to work. Way to screw your kid over right off the bat, Mrs. I Want It All And I'm More Important.

[U4EA]

Right on bro

Now here's a chick who's got her priorities set straight.

[MKJ]

company nearly went bust because of it - [..] whilst you keep paying the babby formers :\

a common misconception (PUN!)
the company doesnt pay the preggos, the state does.

[Ryoki]

Oh yes, that's true, but usually it's indirectly. I think they compensated us with at least a month of lag, or maybe even just the total amount at the end of the tax year... don't remember exactly.

Not a problem for a company with a healthy financial status, but that wasn't exactly the case... at one point we had to ask if people wouldn't mind having their salaries a couple of days later

[Eraser]

Sorry to say so, but as an employer, you know this kind of stuff happens and you have to be prepared for it. If your business goes bust over a few pregnant women, then you've done really, really bad yourself.

[Ryoki]

We had prepared for it a bit i think, just hadn't considered it could happen to three of our hard-to-replace specialists at the same damn time.

But yeah, of course you're correct - it shouldn't happen. It was a combination of bad luck and bad management i think.

[Eraser]

I'm pretty sure that eventually everyone except for the most stubborn anti-child people will agree that it's a good thing that we have governments that take care of our women when they're having a child. It's no small thing.
It's probably "cool" and "tough" and "manly" to say it's dumb of women to get 16 weeks off and get their job back afterwards, but on average we'd be off a lot worse if that wasn't possible. Besides, paid maternity leave is pretty rare in the commercial sector.

[prince1000]

The problem I have is with women that take their maternity leave (six to ten weeks in the US) and then dump the kid with a nursery and go straight back to work. Way to screw your kid over right off the bat, Mrs. I Want It All And I'm More Important.

Wow, you kidding me? I would venture a guess that most women in a situation like that aren't doing it because of selfish reasons but more a matter of circumstance. And how exactly is the child worse off being in childcare at 2-3 months? Doesn't mean you love the kid less.

[Nightshade]

Dude, it's well documented fact that the time that is most critical to a child's development it 0-2 years. I understand that sometimes both parents have to work, but it's definitely to the kid's detriment to leave them in daycare as newborns instead of keeping them home with a parent and really nurturing their development.
Choosing to go back to work instead of making sacrifices to benefit your child is indeed selfish, and the child suffers as a result. No, it likely doesn't mean that the parents love the child less, but it's certainly not the best choice for the kid.

[prince1000]

Dude, it's well documented fact that the time that is most critical to a child's development it 0-2 years. I understand that sometimes both parents have to work, but it's definitely to the kid's detriment to leave them in daycare as newborns instead of keeping them home with a parent and really nurturing their development.
Choosing to go back to work instead of making sacrifices to benefit your child is indeed selfish, and the child suffers as a result. No, it likely doesn't mean that the parents love the child less, but it's certainly not the best choice for the kid.

Not arguing importance of early childhood development. Just amazed how easily you pass judgment without empathy. What you take for granted is, by some, considered a luxury and an unaffordable opportunity.

Edit: I guess I am arguing development per my first post...Monday.

Well, of course legwork needs to be done so that the child is in capable hands but you have to agree that there as many incapable parents out there as there are caregivers so to say with 100% certainty in all cases that the parent knows or does what is best for the child isn't always the case. I do know that I knew fuckall about raising a child when they let me take my son home so who am I to say that there aren't people out there, with an education, making a living that are effective enough to where I don't have to worry about my son having developmental issues down the road because he was in daycare at 3 months.

[^misantropia^]

I agree with NS. Don't get pregnant if you're not willing to take a few years off.

[Eraser]

I do know that I knew fuckall about raising a child when they let me take my son home

That's a funny thing. If you decide to have a child the natural way then no one is going to take any IQ tests or see if you can handle the responsibility, yet if you want to adopt a child, you're screened from top to bottom ten times over to make sure you aren't going to be a bad parent.

[prince1000]

I agree with NS. Don't get pregnant if you're not willing to take a few years off.

I don't totally disagree, but shit doesn't always work out that way.

[GONNAFISTYA]

Companies should have the option of mandatory hysterectomies for women applicants/employees.

So you're saying that corporations should have control over people's bodies? This is the most retarded comment you've ever typed on the internet.

Perhaps corporations should have the right to publicly flog employees for reasons they see fit? Henry Ford would be proud of you.

Naturally, the woman should have the option to refuse....

Naturally.

... upon which the company should be able to refuse employment, or terminate the existing employee.

Or better yet, just never hire women. There's no point in putting a gun to people's heads when you don't have to.

[Nightshade]

Not arguing importance of early childhood development. Just amazed how easily you pass judgment without empathy. What you take for granted is, by some, considered a luxury and an unaffordable opportunity.

Edit: I guess I am arguing development per my first post...Monday.

Well, of course legwork needs to be done so that the child is in capable hands but you have to agree that there as many incapable parents out there as there are caregivers so to say with 100% certainty in all cases that the parent knows or does what is best for the child isn't always the case. I do know that I knew fuckall about raising a child when they let me take my son home so who am I to say that there aren't people out there, with an education, making a living that are effective enough to where I don't have to worry about my son having developmental issues down the road because he was in daycare at 3 months.

I hear you and will certainly concede that there are professionals out there that are more knowledgeable than many new parents. But I still think that many parents that make this choice do so because they aren't willing to make changes to their lifestyle to benefit their new kid. I'm not trying to make a sweeping indictment of everyone that does this, but it's my opinion that you should have all this stuff planned out before you get pregnant, and put the kid's needs first. Of course, many parents don't do that in early childcare choices or any other area.
When my ex was pregnant with my daughter, we both decided that she would stay home until our kid was two, then we'd do daycare and my ex would go back to work. We knew that there were things that we'd be unable to do because of the reduced income, but we felt our daughter's development was more important.

[prince1000]

should change the thread title to GET IN THE KITCHUN!!

[Nightshade]

[axbaby]

i read you tit feed for 2 years for a healthy baby

[prince1000]

haha i wasn't talking to you. you make valid points.

[Nightshade]

Aight

[U4EA]

I made an unnecessarily inflammatory thread, but the issue at its core is a good one, and I wanted to get a solid discussion going. I hope people didn't take literally most of what I wrote, and GFY if that's the most retarded comment you can find, then you're probably not looking hard enough

Anyways, back on topic. Of the two preggos at my office, one is a single mother. She's not one of those super motivated, "got to have everything" career women. She's just someone who happened to get pregnant and doesn't believe in abortion. She only took about ~4 months off at the start, after which she started working part time from home. She slowly increased her workload over the next few months, and as of now she's doing 4 days, with normally 2-3 in the office and 1-2 at home. The important thing is, she made her intentions very clear right from the start: I'm not going anywhere, I'll be back to work as soon as I can swing it. She manages day-care etc for the slugger, and she hasn't slipped up on her work responsibilities. She leaves about 2 hours earlier than normal to pick up her son from day-care, but she's always online at night, answering emails etc. IMO, this is how you deal with it professionally.

The other woman is married, and so doesn't feel any of the same pressures. She knows she doesn't absolutely NEED this job, so she's milking the 1 year allowance dry. She's completely left the company hanging as to what her future is, and by the looks of it she's going to wait as long as possible before committing either way. We've had very little communication from her, and just found out a few weeks ago that she's gone overseas to visit her parents for 3 months. So, pretty much the exact opposite of the other one. Shows an utter lack of professionalism IMO.

Now, about a year ago, before all this happened, I was a staunch supporter of women's workplace rights. I am only human though, and I resent absolutely the way the second woman has dealt with the whole situation. Mostly because I ended up with roughly a third of what she normally does. Of course, this affects all my other responsibilities and the company is sensitive to this fact, and also to the fact that I don't enjoy the actual work itself.

It's hard to find a middle ground though. How do you fairly treat the person while also making sure the company and its employees aren't getting shafted? It's a tough question to answer.

I swear though, when the second one brought in her kid to the office for the first time, I felt like stabbing it with my fork and chucking it in the microwave.