[Alpha] pukka3tourney7

[sumatra]

Hey Folks,

as I mentioned before in the Screenshot Thread, I'm working on a Duel map at the moment.
So here is the first playable Alpha. I would love to get some feedback on the gameplay situtation regarding the floorplan and the main items.
What do you think about adding another tele from MH up to the GL?



Thanks for your thoughts and impressions in advance.

Cheers sum.





Download Alpha 011

[cityy]

Nice little layout you got there.

First of all: Is the Teleporter jump to the LG possible? I tried it like 50 times but couldnt manage it. If this isn't an intended jump you should make it become one..=)
Thinking about a teleporter at the MH I'd say no, dont add one. But maybe add a ramp that allows you to get on the upper level - simular like on phrantic. Then I think there should be something allowing you to jump from the ledge with the 3 shards near the LG to the YA level. I also don't know if the RG is really nessecary on this map.. maybe replace it with a GA and then place another RL on top of the JP.

[sumatra]

Hey cityy,

thanks for your quick response.
First of all, this map is not supposed to be played with promode in general.
So I won't add heavy shortcuts, which would only work with pm enabled. I even don't think those are very useful in maps at all.

The teleporter jump to LG is possible, but not intended.
The RA spot should be the most dangerous spot in this map, so it shall be hard to get out there quick.
The shortcut with a ramp from MH to GL is not possbile in vanilla quake. I was also thinking about adding another JP up to the GL.
But it would create too many routes.

Generally I'm also for 2 RL in a duel map.
In this case I intentionally placed the 1 RL down inthe pit, so players have to move and can't camp @RA.

I don't want the route RA to YA too short. So the ledge with the shards is intentionally this low.
I'm also thinking about losing the RG. But on the other hand I would love to place one in. Maybe I have to kill some higher LOS.

Thanks for your first thoughts, maybe you got more later on..
Hope you understand my argments.

sum

[cityy]

Oh I thought it was for pm physics because in the readme it says "Duel map for cpm gameplay". Well in that case.. hm I don't know - it's probably better for the map's balance if you can access the YA quickly coming from the MH. In that case, just add the TP, we'll see if it works out.

I will sure add some more thoughts. Wondering if I should wait for a new version with the item changes and the TP.

[sumatra]

Oh my lazy butt. I just copied/pasted the text of the readme from an older one..

Well, I think I'm adding stairs to connect YA with MH. So it's more balanced.
I think I'm doing it right now and loading up 012 soon.

Thanks for a start..

sum

[sumatra]

Update:



Download Alpha 012

Now I'm interested in further thougts.

sum

[cityy]

I really like the new MH room. Though I noticed that the one path from the RA to the MH is way shorter than the other - turning right when exiting the TP and taking the path passing the YA you will arrive later than taking the other path - tho Im not sure if that's much of a problem.

[sumatra]

Yes, that's right. I think it's a tactical decision.
Run fast to MH or grab the RG (which is a very powerful weapon on this map) and protect the YA, or predict the enemy at YA. I'll keep these two routes and your thougts in mind.

Do you have some other suggestions?
I'm running really quick at the moment, map is developing fast...



And the other guys? No ideas?
Would be very nice to get further feedback...

[sumatra]

Still trying around with textures and styles. Floorplan is nearly finished.

Some more Screens:

[roughrider]

Sorry I haven't given you any input on this. I don't have internet at the house right now so I can't dl. All I can do is look at your screenies and go, "Ahh I like that".

[sumatra]

Thank you roughy I really appreciate it. Don't understand why I get so sparse feedback on this.
Maybe you d/l it soon? However, would really like to see something new out of your brushes..

I can come up with a Beta soon..

[cityy]

Hm, quake3 mapping scene is small and everybody is busy with his competition map.. Also some people that usually hang out here are inactive due to different reasons. I think your map plays pretty good. Seems balanced and alright to me.

[sumatra]

Hm, quake3 mapping scene is small and everybody is busy with his competition map..

Yes I see that and I'm looking forward full of expectation to the competition entries. It's a blessing that the commnity is still that active!

I think your map plays pretty good. Seems balanced and alright to me.

Thanks so far.
Maybe the visual things get deeper feedback in the beta stage.

cheers

[ShadoW_86]

You have missing texture there sir, eX-trim_01_s.tga. But as it's just test build it's not a problem. I just say what I dislike (botmatch test only :/). the map is very open, and small, it feels like box map with some structures added into middle and around the map. Also the gameplay is very horizontal, It really could use additional level, but I know it would be a hell to change it in such way now. Reminds cpm22 a lot . What I really dislike, that it's 2 pu map layout. Ok, there are 3 pu, but YA and MH are so close (in such small map), that you could just as well place them one next to ther :/. Or just put second RA insted of YA&MH. All the gameplay is about going from one side of the map to opposite. And it feels very, very poor, especially as the map is so flat. I would start changes with spreading the pu items, bot not sure how right now, as the map is so small and simple in structures :/. I can clearly see that you wanted to create such small cpma level, like aero or cpm22 for example, but as I mentioned, if looks like box map more atm. Sorry, but you should really consider making structures more complex.

Edit: I wrote this after testing that a012 version, if there is an updated one somewhere here, let me know.

[sumatra]

Hey Shadow, thanks for the feedback. The item layout is intentional.
There are two PU areas, BUT there are other key areas as well. Think of the weaponery like RG and of course RL.

The vertex action is still limited, thats right. Wanted to go with a more flat layout this time.
It's definately not running from one side to another. As already mentioned the weapons make you move, so you also won't find much ammo. Also the health are put in weaker areas in the next version. You'll see it works.

I learned one thing in the last years of competitive leveldesign. Don't make your floorplan too complex. Noone will ever train it, if he doesn't understand the overall layout after some matches.

Thanks for your feedback though. I need a polarizing discussion for the design process.
So don't hesitate and keep it coming.

AND the map needs more personal testing, that's for sure.
I'll load up the beta soon...

[ShadoW_86]

I learned one thing in the last years of competitive leveldesign. Don't make your floorplan too complex. Noone will ever train it, if he doesn't understand the overall layout after some matches.

that's totally true, but tbh in case of your map it's not too complex, it's too simple . Seriously when I look at this map it looks like boxmap, and escpecially when I think about your earlier maps. Also lets think about most popular maps like ztn or aero (even if it's small), they ARE complex, multi-level maps, and ppl play it. And then we have q3dm1 map . Players do like complex maps, as they are more fun to play.

[Anthem]

I learned one thing in the last years of competitive leveldesign. Don't make your floorplan too complex. Noone will ever train it, if he doesn't understand the overall layout after some matches.

that's totally true, but tbh in case of your map it's not too complex, it's too simple . Seriously when I look at this map it looks like boxmap, and escpecially when I think about your earlier maps. Also lets think about most popular maps like ztn or aero (even if it's small), they ARE complex, multi-level maps, and ppl play it. And then we have q3dm1 map . Players do like complex maps, as they are more fun to play.

Indeed. I like to use the term "skill ceiling" to refer to the skill that is attainable through practice and experience on a map. A map like q3dm1 has a very low skill ceiling while hub3areoq3 has a fairly high skill ceiling. Players are attracted to higher skill ceilings as long as the layouts are presentable and comfortable in which to play.

[sumatra]

I fully agree. The complexity is still growing, but on a low finetuning level.
Hope that works. Want to keep it as simple as possible, but as complex as needed to make it not boring.

Let's see what you think of the Beta.