Layout alpha (Cityy-Hipshot)

[Hipshot]

Cityy and me have been working on a level together this past week, here it is.
http://www.zfight.com/misc/files/q3/h6.zip (~400K) <- Initial Alpha 1
http://cityy.explicits.de/uploads/maps/ ... gp/c11.zip <- Updated Alpha 2


Graphics haven't been fixed yet, but I'm working on it.
So it looks like this for now:






Needs to be played with 1.32, since it's using the newer way to spawn items in different game modes.
Bot support.

Edit:
If you want to refer to a specific section of the level, you could use these names (cityy and me have been using this for easier communication):
[lvlshot]http://www.zfight.com/misc/images/maps/ ... _names.jpg[/lvlshot]

[monaster]

A collaboration between you two sounds interesting, gonna give it a run as soon as possible.

[v1l3]

I liked playing it, it's a good layout. The center of the map is interesting..in it's q3dm6'ish fashion. I've never seen that done before, yet it's original in it's own way. Some parts of the map feel kind of wide open, though that will probably be good for ffa/tdm. I played it with three bots..it didn't feel crowded. It could be good for tourney to.. The only thing I didn't like was the small waterpool that you can drop into.

[AEon]

Interesting map... after playing it for 10 minutes with 4 bots on hardcore, I still have trouble orientating... in this case this is "good", because it means the layout is quite clever and non-trivial. A few things I noted:

• What is that cylindrical pool (near a TP) for? Planning to place an item there?
• There are two planks attached to walls. The one above the GL does not really seem to help with clever pathing jumps, the one above the PG on the other hand lets you grab the RL ammo. Is the GL plank just there to give players a place to "camp"?
• The default bots seem to ignore the Quad most of the time. Maybe it might be good to add DOOM as a 3rd bot. IIRC bots do not like small platforms in water with items on them.
• I like the stairs (90° ascending) and the way you can jump over the gap to grab the RG and then jump back.
• Overall gameflow seems to be quite good... the only sightly dead area seems to be under the RG... feels dead-endish somewhat. Maybe I just did not understand why I'd want to hang out down there.
• Found a few vertical sparklies, on the rounded off wall behind RG stairs.

This could turn out to be quite a fun map.

[cityy]

That small water pool you both spoke of is there to prevent players from taking falling damage when they drop down - might be better to remove it and move the 50 health bubble there.
We thought about placing a more important item in the room below the RG but that would not work out with the general item layout so we had to drop that idea. I use that room to recover since there is a 25 and a 50 laying arround there.

@v1l3: Where did you feel like it was too wide/open?

Thanks for the feedback guys =)

[monaster]

I can agree with almost everything v1|3 and AEon had noticed, I even like your map because of the same motifs (q3dm6 feeling, the 90° ascending stairs, and so on).
About the pool: you can put a MH into the water to make it worth the time and thus risk to get out of it again or simply use "cushion" clip if it is just about falling damage that should be prevented.
Just interested: which build cmd did you use to compile this map?
The big room from the top to the bottom with the quad power-up seems somwhat crowded if playing with 4 bots on nightmare (hi there hardcore-AEon!), since they tend to be there all the time and neglect other parts of the map. But that could just be me playing against four nightmare Bittermans . I still recommend to do that to everyone else reading this: these suckers will start their own personal rampage with really nothing but grenade launchers (well some other weapons too but GL is chosen like 80% of all the time), this is one of the funniest dm I've played in a long time. (compare with screenie #3)
Now for the rest of the feedback, brightly pictured, with my notes directly in the pics (quake chat,):







All in all a very nice death match (yeah, forgot to set a time and fraglimit, gave myself 12 minutes to get acquainted with your map, didn't have the same problem as Aeon did, maybe because I didn't use the teleporters too often, might have taken another 5 minutes then):

[AEon]

About the high JP: It might be a good idea to add small ledges on the med level paths left and right of the JP. This way the bots could go up the JP to then drop to the med levels as well.

I agree the bots tend to hang out in the central room, but I have been fighting them on various height levels here, e.g. around the RG... so this could be OK for now.

Just noted the YA at the bottom of the RG pit... I might start going for that

[fKd]

cool, this should be very interesting! will try out when i get back from work.

(haaay! its AEon! still working on temp01 in case ya were wondering)

[v1l3]

@v1l3: Where did you feel like it was too wide/open?

Well.. Not really to wide open I guess, I should say oversized in parts. Like the SG and PG area's seem kind of big, but it does have more of a older Q3 map feel with the way it is, kind of like bubtny2 has. That map has way more of a wide open center, but the hallways are wide..which is kind of like what you have in your map in parts. The only scare for wide open spots is the RG.
If you shrink them down though, what will it do to the map..could be bad, I dunno for sure..I guess it's not that big of a worry. Just a thought.

[AEon]

fKd,
good news about temp01

v1l3,
hmmm... you might like to go into noclip mode, take screenshot from above, and paint in the areas you think might be "mad less wide". That way the rest of us and the mappers could take a closer look.

One thing I noted was the placement of the SG... to the side of one wall, whereas all the other weapons seems to be in the middle of the paths... might be something to change, maybe (i.e. SG placement).

[Hipshot]

Thanks for the feedback you guys =)

Cit and me have been reading and doing some small changes to the level, he will post an update when he feels ready to do so...

@ Aeon - cit and me have been using this to communicate the areas, since it became to difficult and took a lot of time writing "two rooms next to the RL and then left some". =)



For those that dug deep, there's a .map file of the level in the pk3 =)
However, there will be another one when cit posts the update.

[v1l3]

Well, like the first pic of Hipshot's pics above where the curved walkway next to the RG is so wide..though the size of that area would need to be shrunk down to change that, and would that be a good idea and alot of the other side of that map would also be affected by that decision. I dunno for sure..just a thought. I like the map quite a bit actually...I know it's not all that pretty right now, but it damn original. Apart of what I was just saying above needs more opinions I guess.

[Hipshot]

Btw, you have any opinions about the item layout? You probably noted that there's no red armor. And in FFA and TDM, there's no MH.

[skinNCNmaster]

mmm have not downloaded this or anything but got inspired by seeing grenades and thoug hey.. one of those images looks very familiar from a ffa map in the base q3 set... very very similar.

anywho the whole grenade inspiration is to say...
for you to look for the highest traffic spots on the lower level and put a few small conduits trough the floor to the low level for grenades to be tossed through while traversing for items or whereva,

like a daisy chain of holes in the floor ceiling, four to seven holes in a little row with enough spacing that while running a grenade could be timied to launch through a few of them, if not all of them, by turning around while running and aiming back for the few that were missed while approaching..

dunno if you follow me, just im a grenade freak and like to figure new ways to approach frags and traps and defensives like the grenade well shield pop ups in pn03

[cityy]

Update:

This version comes with some minor changes:

- changed the drop down at the RL to be square
- changed the round MH platform to be square
- readded "ceiling" in the PG room
- moved the pillar in the PG room
- added a small wall to seperate the entrances from the MH/QUAD and the YA/SG room (PG room)
- added another spawn point at the 25 in the PG room

Download: http://cityy.explicits.de/uploads/maps/ ... gp/c11.zip

[lvlshot]http://cityy.explicits.de/uploads/maps/ ... 11/c11.jpg[/lvlshot]

[lvlshot]http://cityy.explicits.de/uploads/maps/ ... %20(2).jpg[/lvlshot]

[lvlshot]http://cityy.explicits.de/uploads/maps/ ... %20(1).jpg[/lvlshot]

[sock]

Cityy and me have been working on a level together this past week

Wow, now this should be an amazing map when finished. Unfortunately I don't have access to Q3 at the moment but will have a look when I stop travelling around. Im looking forward to seeing some more progress on this map.

[Chretien]

[lvlshot]http://dl.dropbox.com/u/159251/Map/Inspiration/suggestions.jpg[/lvlshot]

This refers to screenshots 1 and 4. Hope you like it!

[AEon]

The more I play the map the more I like it. I still have trouble getting around in it, not really taking advantage of the paths. But getting there. Hopefully I'll be able to come up with some suggestions about the paths soon.

[v1l3]

I played around in it for a good hour in 1vs1 and 2vs2..I really like the new teleporter...the 50% health by it is really good also. I had some thoughts in my head of things to add or change, but I figured I should just play it and get used to where everything is first. I know this is the only the second version you've put up, but I think everything plays just fine.
The weapon layout is good. Originally I wanted to say to change the LG and the SG around because where the SG is at takes longer to reach, unless you drop to it...but than if the LG was there than someone could just grab the RG, and drop straight to the LG..that would be bad!! Where the GL is at, you can grab it quick and move to the RG and Spam grenades down to the SG area, except that the RG area is wide open so good luck at that. I bounced around alot of idea's like that, but after playing it through about five matches I really think everything is well balanced..ammo included.
The only thing that I've found in question is the little platform above the door in the PG room. It works very well for coming down, but you can't use it to go up since it's out of reach that way. The teleporter isn't very far away to get up to that area. Would it be a bad idea to make that connective from the bottom, or would that take away the importance of that teleporter?

[deqer]

I still have trouble orientating... in this case this is "good", because it means the layout is quite clever and non-trivial.

true.

---

I liked the level. I only wish it can turn out to be a quake1 themed map.

Okay, here are a few suggestions:

[lvlshot]http://www.bport.ca/temp/c11/c11-a.jpg[/lvlshot]

[lvlshot]http://www.bport.ca/temp/c11/c11-b.jpg[/lvlshot]

[lvlshot]http://www.bport.ca/temp/c11/c11-c.jpg[/lvlshot]

[lvlshot]http://www.bport.ca/temp/c11/c11-d.jpg[/lvlshot]

[lvlshot]http://www.bport.ca/temp/c11/c11-e.jpg[/lvlshot]

[lvlshot]http://www.bport.ca/temp/c11/c11-f.jpg[/lvlshot]

[lvlshot]http://www.bport.ca/temp/c11/c11-g.jpg[/lvlshot]

[cityy]

The "door" in the hallway you found strange is there so you can do splash damage with rockets when someone exits the TP. About your other screenshots: These beams are temp - they will look different in the version with gfx stuff done. Same thing for the Pillars at the RL and the TP exit platform. Hm the last shot... AEon and v1l3 suggested that too, we will think about it again!

@ v1l3: Kinda funny to see how you think exactly what we were thinking.. e.g. about the LG.

Glad you guys enjoy it, thanks for the feedback!

[Hipshot]

Yea, about that little platform there... many people have asked about it.
The reason why I added that one was because I found it too hardcore trying to achieve the jump from where the 50H is to the RL-Ammo, so I added that platform. It was never intended to let the player in the other direction, but I can see why people want that (espec with this gfx, looks like you can do it so you try), I know I tried several times myself...

The pk3 contains the source for the level, if you wanna see how it is if you can go both directions. Just compile and try it out!
We might also change that, it's just that it's such a small change to put out another version just for that!

@ deqer, thanks for the feedback! The graphics is ofc all temporary, but it will not turn into a Quake1-themed level, sorry! =)
About the TP-Exit, yes, there's a chance that you might get TF'ed if you stand and camp there. And about adding a bridge over? Well, I thought about that in the beginning and it might certainly be cool to do it and go over and come down somewhere else or just go out there and have an item there... but we didn't make it. It might be bad connecting everything too much. Now it's just a good camping and observing spot.

@Chretien, I don't fully understand the first path in the picture you drew there... what is it supposed to replace?

[fKd]

had a play. very fun! a few things... is it a little low on health?
guess i only played 1 match, but i found myself on low health a fair bit of the match. it was vs 3 bots on hardcore. they moved around the level great! (won 20-7 heh)

i cant think of to many negatives... had to bump the gamma up. maybe try switching the gl and the rl? the rl spot would be a fun gl area.. and the gl looked to small(?) in its current space. but thats just a maybe...

moving around the spaces felt right... nice job there! never felt trapped and the flow seemed natural. i took a few pointers from it

looking forward to seeing an update. keep on truckin!

[monaster]

[lvlshot]http://www.bport.ca/temp/c11/c11-f.jpg[/lvlshot]

Well you can actually get there by setting your max_FPS to 125, then it's perfectly possible, I thought that there might be some item added to this section to make it worth taking the time to jump up there later on, when new versions will be made available. But yeah, it's probably just the teleporter exit and nothing more

[skinNCNmaster]

a good question to ask ones self when putting a thing like such an area.. is the question why? so we have a teleporter exit.. why do we have a teleporter exit in a no mans land? why did the people of this world build a teleporter to nowhere? perhaps a shrine or some such detail later on will inhabit part of that area..