AEdm7 - Skybox tests (Mighty Pete's skyboxes?)

[AEon]

Anyone know where Mighty Pete's skybox collection went?

• http://quake.stuff.gen.nz is no workie

For AEdm7 I have found a skybox called forest (thanks Pat, from Burial Grounds Map Pak II, bgmp8), that really fits the map. Alas the resolution is a bit low, so I am hoping to find a more hi-res version (well it already is 512x512, maybe one can sharpen it with PS).

[phantazm11]

You might check in this skybox collection put together by Speaker. It contains 240 skies by various authors. Linky

Even if it isn't in there, it is worth the download.

[AEon]

Good reminder, alas I already downloaded those and looked through them. I seem to keep finding interesting skyboxes in maps though, so that made me wonder about what other sources I may be missing.

[AEon]

Trying to see if it is possible to take several screenshots in-game to then turn them into a 360° panoramic view, as a possible skybox. I experimented, using 25 screenshots (player cam horizontal, press cursor-right to rotate camera an increment, screenshot, cursor right, etc.). This is the result using Sock's Pyramid of the Magician as a test:

• [lvlshot]http://aemap.hugelaser.com/misc/pom_2048x512_ps.jpg[/lvlshot]

All this was created by a tool called Autostich (a demo). I only cropped the "black" (blank) areas, and rescaled it (+ Unsharp Mask). Obviously this does not solve the top and bottom issue in skyboxes, but one could "fake" the sky by superimposing an existing one. The image actually wraps around.

If you folks out there have experimented with other tools to turn in-game images into a skybox, I'd be interested in hearing about it.

[obsidian]

There was a Q3 mod out there somewhere that took a 360-degree screenshot of any given location and outputted them in skybox format. Forgot what it was called though.

[Hipshot]

Skyboxmod.

[Hipshot]

http://www.zfight.com/misc/files/q3/skyboxmod.zip

[jal_]

Oh, if you have troubles with the mod you can also use Warsow/Qfusion for this. Command: envshot <name> <size>

[AEon]

Still don't even know what Warsow/Qfusion are, ignorant as I am .

For those interested, the author of the skyboxmod actually released the source code for the mod, see this thread:

http://icculus.org/pipermail/quake3/200 ... 02611.html

Side note: I am really surprised how well the skyboxmod works, meaning the seams fit perfectly... and I was thinking of doing it the hard way by hand. The biggest issue with the mod is the resolution, 512x is too low, it would have to be 1024x, and AA would also be a good thing. In theory one could build a very detailed and complex skybox map to create the env textures, but you'd have to get the scale right.

Update: As a test I used POM to create a skybox, and placed it in AEdm7... scaled down - in the below shots - it does not look too bad and the 512x images actually look "fine", only in the skybox playing at 1680x1050 they really look badly blurred.

• 

[Hipshot]

I know without even having played it that it will feel strange...
I think that structure in the environment map should be avoided.. well, the farther away it is the more acceptable it becomes.
Socks temple there, I know it will look strange, what you lose in 2d is the parallax, you want that, espec with structures and well, trees etc...

If I would do this, I would move all structures and trees far away and take the screens. Then I would mix this with a sky portal of my own, containing the same assets as in the 2d sky.

[AEon]

Hipshot,
yeah... agree... this was basically a test to see what a complex portal sky could look like as a "background". Though it could look cool, as you say the rocks and temple are too much "in your face". And a change of the sky would of course also be done.

I installed QFusion (jal_ thanks for the tip) and took the screenshots with it in 1024x... since AA is turned on they look a *lot* better. For some reason they are much darker than what you see when playing the map. Hmmm...

• 

In the RL2 arena the Sock's architecture looks kinda cool... though concerning the setting the map simply does not fit the pyramid. My map is too techy. I think "re-creating" some of those rocks, actually making them part of the map, using a more "generic" (see AEdm7 thread) skybox, will be better.

[Hipshot]

Skyboxmod takes clean screenshots, with your settings and overbrightbits 1, if you have that. Maybe QFusion does this differently, thus skipping the overbrightbits. If you have it on, take a screen using "printscreen" and see the difference from Q3s regular screenshot button.

[jal_]

Skyboxmod takes clean screenshots, with your settings and overbrightbits 1, if you have that. Maybe QFusion does this differently, thus skipping the overbrightbits. If you have it on, take a screen using "printscreen" and see the difference from Q3s regular screenshot button.

Ye, screenshots in qfusion don't take r_overbrightbits into account. You can set r_ignorehwgamma 1 to make them look bright. Looks good, although it's not exactly the same look. Anyway, if the mod works (when I hear q3 mod I tend to think they are old and possibly not work for 1.32, but, of course, it's not necesarily the case), since your map is for q3, I think may be better just with using the mod.

Warsow is this game, btw: http://www.warsow.net

[AEon]

Yes, the skyboxmod works well enough, but all geometry is missing AA on the edges, this makes the env textures look *really* bad and lo-res, even though 512x is actually OK.

Bottom line... I just returned to my "forest" skybox by Mighty Pete, and that looks *so* much better. Using a map to create a skybox is probably a very worthy thing to do, but a *huge* pain, and would take ages to pull off properly. I.e. using POM as a base for the mapping: Create a much larger rock arena, use the AEdm7 skybox lighting and forest skybox, and create a new skybox from all that. This way one could very generously plaster everything with hi-poly trees and plants, *and* have the fitting lighting.

An idea I still have, is to use a map based skybox, but away the sky, place it on the inside of a cylinder, and put that in a portal sky (box). As background deco. Hmmm... maybe not.

Downloading Warsow.

[^misantropia^]

The biggest issue with the mod is the resolution, 512x is too low, it would have to be 1024x, and AA would also be a good thing.

I took a look at the skybox mod's source and I think it should be as easy as changing this line in cgame/cg_draw.c:

Code: Select all

localRefdef.width = localRefdef.height = 512;

To this:

Code: Select all

localRefdef.width = localRefdef.height = 1024;

ioquake3 supports AA out of the box (r_ext_multisample 0..4 and r_ext_max_anisotropy, defaults to 2) so you should be set to go.

[AEon]

^misantropia^,
amazing. I had searched the source for "512" but those variables had not rung a bell.

Would you be able to compile those changes? I don't have the dev environment or experience with compiling/working on q3 mods, presently. And with ioquake3, the AA issues should also be a thing of the past, as you say. I'll probably not use the changed mod for AEdm7, but I am sure other folks out there will appreciate the hires textures.

Thanks.

[Hipshot]

I was almost about to PM you ^misantropia^ and ask you to take a lookie =) Since I figured it must be such an easy change...

[AEon]

While we are at it ...

It would be even niftier if the saving would create the proper file names (_up, _dn, _lf, _rt, _ft, _bk), and crop the image before saving. But this is probably either not possible technically, or a *huge* pain to code. Sorry for bringing this up

[^misantropia^]

Writing out the skybox images with proper file names isn't much of an issue if you can live with it overwriting older skyboxes.

Cropping however might be more difficult; I used to write software for a living that did just that - import images, then crop and resize them - and it appears everyone has a different definition of what good cropping is (and it often depends on the picture as well, the horror!).

Anyway, if you can give a clear description of what you have in mind, I'll see what I can do. =)

[AEon]

ioquake3 supports AA out of the box (r_ext_multisample 0..4 and r_ext_max_anisotropy, defaults to 2) so you should be set to go.

I just installed ioquake v1.36, it does not know the command r_ext_multisample, the skyboxmod works with ioquake3, but the screenshots still do not have AA. Possibly the mod turns off AA on purpose, or it is some strange limitation due to the way the code calls on screenshots.

[AEon]

Writing out the skybox images with proper file names isn't much of an issue if you can live with it overwriting older skyboxes.

Cropping however might be more difficult; I used to write software for a living that did just that - import images, then crop and resize them - and it appears everyone has a different definition of what good cropping is (and it often depends on the picture as well, the horror!).

Anyway, if you can give a clear description of what you have in mind, I'll see what I can do. =)

... neat... technically a white image in the current game resolution is saved. In my case 1680x1050. Note: I am assuming that you *must* ensure that the play-resolution is at *least* as large as 512x512 (thus the in-game mod warning to set the resoltion to 800x600 at least).

The skybox images is in the top left of that "white image", i.e. pixels x=0-511 and y=0-511. Anything beyond that would need be removed. Interestingly, you also needs to rotate the _up (CW 90°) and _dn (CCW 90°) images, and the "apparent" left image, is actually the _rt and the right one is _lf. I always wonder who came up with such an illogical naming convention. Not sure this is the "intended" way, but I was able to fix the images by trial and error.

Ideally the images should be saved so that folks can use them right away. *But*, IMO, it's probably not really worth the hassle, a quick crop in PS (macro) is simple, and the rotation of images as well.

Side note: QFusion saves the images in another notation: _px _py _pz _nx _ny _nz (IIRC), that required massive rotation and mirroring to make them compatible with Q3. Hmm...... was that the old notation?

If we can figure out why the images have no AA, now that would really help. If not, creating 2048x, would let the user quality down-scale the images to 1024x or even 512x thus taking the edge of the edge (small pun there ).

[^misantropia^]

I just installed ioquake v1.36, it does not know the command r_ext_multisample, the skyboxmod works with ioquake3, but the screenshots still do not have AA. Possibly the mod turns off AA on purpose, or it is some strange limitation due to the way the code calls on screenshots.

I just checked. 1.36 is derived from SVN revision 1529 and AA was added in 1573 so it just missed the boat.

Give the Angst build a spin. It's a nightly build of the current SVN revision.

[Hipshot]

I think it's a really bad idea to have the app do AA be itself in the screens... or what do you guys mean here? I would prefer to get my shots clean for post editing...

[jal_]

Side note: QFusion saves the images in another notation: _px _py _pz _nx _ny _nz (IIRC), that required massive rotation and mirroring to make them compatible with Q3. Hmm...... was that the old notation?

QFusion exports them in cubemap format. I'm not sure what's the difference between Q3 skybox and a cubemap image. I asumed they were the same, but the truth is that I don't know since the cubemap works straight ahead in QFusion skies, so all I do is skyparms <name without sufix>. My guess is that the difference is it being mirrored?

I don't think the qfusion images require so terrible editing. I think it has to be possible to make them work just by renaming when you find the right names to be replaced, but I'm not totally sure.

The meanings of the cubemap images are:

px: positive x axis (could mean left)
nx: negative x axis (could mean right)
py: positive y (back?)
ny: negative y (front?)
pz: positive z axis (bottom?)
nz: negative z (top?)

[AEon]

Give the Angst build a spin. It's a nightly build of the current SVN revision.

Installed the latest build, indeed the new AA is in there. I set r_ext_multisample 4 running the skyboxmod, this finally turns on Anti-Aliasing for the geometry in screenshots. The edges of leaves (transparency) was still a bit pixelized, maybe upping r_ext_max_anisotropy will help.

Anyway, thanks for clearing up how to "fix" things.