Shared Map

[Magnus]

Anyone ever thought to do or done something to the effect of one person do a room or portion of a map then send that on to someone else and they add on to it and so on?

Might be fun. :P

[Silicone_Milk]

Yep! Pass the Map.
The last PTM event was around a year or so ago irrc.

They typically don't go too well though....

[Todtsteltzer]

This one was impressive: Ld_ptm1 Beta1

Unfortunately the map has some flaws (especially bot play) that weren't fixed.

[a13n]

Let's do it again. :icon25:

[corsair]

any thoughts on this going to be q3 or q4?

[dichtfux]

q3 or what?

[Magnus]

Well for me it would have to be Q3 because I have no experience mapping for Q4 though it looks fun.
I was able to play through the Q4 single game and had a solo look at some of the mulitiplayer maps that shipped with it, but unfortunately my Q4 disk somehow got out of the case and was on the floor under my office chair and I rolled over it.

I had kind of hoped this idea was an origonal...lol. Guess at this point whatever one can think of for Q3A has already been done :P

Anyway if it was a flop event then forget it, but If some were interesting then I would be in.

Are there rules or widely accepted standards in the "pass the map"?

[v1l3]

PassTheMap(ptm) was a great concept, but the map was eh.. ld_ptm1 is great, minded the bots would be a big job I'd imagine. If someone planned another out, and had a concept that has never been done yet, and held an idea that made it interesting to players..I think it would be great to see.

I think a good a idea would to build a huge place...something like the concept of bgmp5(Burial Grounds Mappack)by Stormshadow, where it was a gigantic map that was an underwater building. Something like that...or possibly a space station, or like the other topic that has map "q3tower" where it's a huge city.

Would be much better than a bunch of different style maps all latched together that would be better to be a bunch of different maps than one mixed up Mulligan Stew. I wouldn't say that it's not an original idea...it's just whether you make it original enough that it makes everybody say "Damn!"

[corsair]

q3 or what?

forgive me I'm a sinner =)

[obsidian]

I think people need to work out a nice little alpha for layout purposes first. IIRC, all the other PTM projects were created by having everyone make a single room. That didn't work since every room would look different and also gameplay didn't really flow.

Probably limit the number of people involved since once the number of contributers gets too high, it gets pretty hard to manage.

Maybe instead, have smaller teams of 3 or 4 working on different maps.

[Magnus]

all the other PTM projects were created by having everyone make a single room. That didn't work since every room would look different and also gameplay didn't really flow.

This was actually what I was thinking when I got the idea. See how gameplay and flow went with various mappers adding in their own style. I was thinking it would almost be like going from one world to another when passing from room to room, but now I see that it would more likely come out a big stressed out mess if it were done that way.

Perhaps if there were going to be 3 or 4 mappers each one could create like 8 textures/shaders to be added to the pool of artwork that could be used prior to building the map.
The mappers could make sure that all artwork and themes seem to go together.

They could still do it where each one does a single room, but all agree on a common type of room to room connection and positioning.

[dichtfux]

Perhaps if there were going to be 3 or 4 mappers each one could create like 8 textures/shaders to be added to the pool of artwork that could be used prior to building the map.
The mappers could make sure that all artwork and themes seem to go together.

Maybe deciding on an existing texture set before starting the map would be a better idea.

[wattro]

you could always copy the industry model to help manage a pass the map. typically the reason that ptm's suffer is because of lack of vison, leadership, or proper management.

i'm not saying to go all out, but i do think a strategy would be beneficial

-a concept is agreed upon
-a project lead to direct what is going on by whom and when
-a gameplay mapper to create the sought after experience
-a texturer to pump out rad textures
-a modeller to pump out rad models
-a lighter to create the freakin mood
-a technical lead to help out in all areas and handle the extras (like bots!)

all of these can be primary and/or secondary disciplines.... after all, everyone wants to map, but why not make a portfolio piece that is relevant to the way the industry works and manage it in a productive way?

setting it up like this also makes it easy to bring in support in case someone is too busy or you want to get more people involved. plus it's a good way to get anything done - by knowing the skillsets of your team and using them in the best way possible

[wattro]

that being said, i would love to see a dope-ass space map meets supermans crystal palace (whatever that place is called) map =)

[v1l3]

-a project lead to direct what is going on by whom and when

If you want that, you better make sure that he is a better mapper than all of the others...a supreme leader!

...Superman? This isn't a comic book game

[Kaz]

I think the main reason it has always been "make room pass to next guy" is because once you ramp up the complexity the less likely you are to actually complete the project. Just IMO

[Foo]

Also unlike the industry, there's little to stop someone going rogue on the thing. Even if you nominate a lead for the project the chances are the first decision he makes which someone disagrees with becomes a 'democratic' discussion which ends in everything going to shit.

Because people are stupid.

[Magnus]

I totally agree with the last few posts. I was just thinking on the scale of a fun little game not a big super portfolio building project.
I think to much organization would defeat the idea behind something like this.

Geez! I see what some of the posters were talking about on a PTM. I can see something like this getting out of hand and crashing before it ever even got started.

[Survivor]

But if you ever do get it started make it ctf.

[^misantropia^]

A Q4 SP map. It's (mostly) a linear sequence, easy for different mappers to append their contribution to and it'll probably suffer less from style clashes.

[Kaz]

Misantropia is a smart man.

[obsidian]

Also unlike the industry, there's little to stop someone going rogue on the thing. Even if you nominate a lead for the project the chances are the first decision he makes which someone disagrees with becomes a 'democratic' discussion which ends in everything going to shit.

Because people are stupid.

So you need a lead that rules with an iron fist. Who needs democratic discussions anyway? A slap or two will fix 'em.

Seriously though, that's why maybe smaller groups will help. Less chance of someone going rogue and less people to disagree with and you can choose who you would like to work with.

[Magnus]

But if you ever do get it started make it ctf.

That could end up very cool or very convoluted.

A Q4 SP map. It's (mostly) a linear sequence, easy for different mappers to append their contribution to and it'll probably suffer less from style clashes.

Good point. I can see where style conflicts would stand out less in the Q4 engine. Although I would have to go buy a new copy of Q4 and learn q4 mapping.

Misantropia is a smart man..

Tiz true

Seriously though, that's why maybe smaller groups will help. Less chance of someone going rogue and less people to disagree with and you can choose who you would like to work with.

Again good point.

[wattro]

i'm not saying it has to be totalitarian, but i am suggesting the industry model is flexible and does traditionally produce solid results.

having a rogue mapper is one thing (albeit a bit of an extreme example - a managed project can handle one and not by stunting creativity but by focusing it - remember that your weaknesses are always your strengths), and in a pass the map, you can easily support having extended creativity.

i'm merely offering an alternative method for a pass the map. i know i dont mind being part of a team and having a somewhat defined role.

at the end of the day, it's all about having fun - as long as clear vision is agreed to and team is successful, a pass the map is easy and fun.

[ix-ir]

You could produce a high grade map using the industry model, making something that'd be useful rather than ignored.

I can offer gameplay/competitive design related advice if it's going to be for Q3.