Q3A: first beta version of spirit3t2 - better off dead

[dichtfux]

Hi again,

the first beta version of my current CPMA map is available and I'd be happy if some people were willing to take a look and state their opinions on what could be improved.

The map is available from my website or via this direct link.

Screenshots:

Shot 1:


Shot 2:


Shot 3:


Shot 4:


Thanks for your time and have fun!

[xgo]

better make some vq3 maps, they are needet for cpl

[dnky]

Layout generally is OK....little bit too much area corridor area in places, but pretty good flow.

My major concern is the trend for CPMA to equate to lack of detail or just down right unattractivness. I strongly believe this doesn't have to be the case.
The textures and coloured lighting (from light emitting shaders) is a bit of a mis match. there is no overall theme or feel. On several of the crates the textures are even reversed. There is visible light spotting on ceilings and walls in several places and lights with no obvious source. In several places single textures have been applied leading to obvious texture repartitions. It is true that some areas do have detail, but in the main the level suffers from evil flat walls meeting the floor at 90 degrees. I am not over keen on the protruding light fittings as they are at the moment. They just sit on top of the wall brushes; some recessing and decoration would be cool, or at the very least clip them smooth.

To me the walls and floors are a little on the thin side, leading to an impression of a general lack of solidity throughout.

The console reports a windfly.wav is missing. I think this indicates that you have used target_push instead of target_position as the jump pad target ents.

Are the slime pits necessary? They seem somewhat erroneous. Along the same lines the death pit under the 25 health is perhaps some what exteme. For effect, I would lower the trigger_hurt brush too so player fall a bit further.

[Foo]

better make some vq3 maps, they are needet for cpl

I haven't found any CPM maps that weren't also excellent VQ3 maps. The backwards compatability kinda builds itself in, even the gameplay.

[dzjepp]

the cpl is stubborn anyway, all they did this year is pick the old crop of maps. pffff

[xgo]

better make some vq3 maps, they are needet for cpl

I haven't found any CPM maps that weren't also excellent VQ3 maps. The backwards compatability kinda builds itself in, even the gameplay.

then u dont know anything about gameplay

@dzjepp: the cpl will use only new maps this year

[dichtfux]

The textures and coloured lighting (from light emitting shaders) is a bit of a mis match.

I'm not sure i get what you mean.

There is actually no colored lighting on the map except for the lava that emitts light and the lamps in the YA/water room have a very light blue touch. I didn't place a single colored light source.
The blue lights in the rest of the map are from Evillairs e8 texture pack and don't emit any light. There are (colorless) point lights placed in front of them. Do you mean that blue lights should be placed in fron of them because the light texture looks blue?

there is no overall theme or feel.

Yes, you are right. This is the major flaw of the current version. Do you think I should decide on either the (rather modern) e8 Textures or the (old, q2-style) mkoxide textures? I would tend to remove all mkoxide textures then...

There is visible light spotting on ceilings and walls in several places

Is this bad? I intentionally made this to emphasize that light doesnt come out of thin air but from the lamp attached to the floor.

and lights with no obvious source.

this is bad and i'll fix it for the next beta.

In several places single textures have been applied leading to obvious texture repartitions. It is true that some areas do have detail, but in the main the level suffers from evil flat walls meeting the floor at 90 degrees.

yes, a friend of mine mentioned that, too. i'll work on some of the corridors.

I am not over keen on the protruding light fittings as they are at the moment. They just sit on top of the wall brushes; some recessing and decoration would be cool, or at the very least clip them smooth.

the map was made for CPMA and with CPMA physics, you can use these lights to double/ramp-jump up to various places in the map. they are intentionally not clipped. try double-jumping up to the large health in the water room or do a single jump instead of climbing the large stairs in the SG-room (Screenshot 2).

i'll think about how i could make them look nice and still allow for the jumps, though.

The console reports a windfly.wav is missing. I think this indicates that you have used target_push instead of target_position as the jump pad target ents.

Thanks! I remember reading about that some time ago but didn't know which one should be used and why. Of course, i chose the wrong one ;-)

Are the slime pits necessary? They seem somewhat erroneous. Along the same lines the death pit under the 25 health is perhaps some what exteme. For effect, I would lower the trigger_hurt brush too so player fall a bit further.

[/quote]

I think i'll replace the slime with water. But that corridor drove me nuts anyways. I didn't really know how to make it look more interesting. I hate it, too.

I like the lava grates below the PG though. But the lighting the lava gives to the walls sucks a bit, you're right. Maybe this should also be water. I also agree on that both the acid/slime and lava are a bit off-topic. Yes, i'll make them water and think about that bridge corridor. Any ideas for it?

EDIT: the file has been updated : lava and slime gone, target_position issues fixed

Thanks for your time so far.

[dichtfux]

better make some vq3 maps, they are needet for cpl

I'll make maps for whatever I like. :icon31:

[v1l3]

Some opinions...take them as constructive critism, rather than negative comments.

You should probably find a way to work the eq2 textures into the map rather than the evil8 textures, as they just don't go together in my opinion. For example...the wall behind the gl has the little part of the mkoxide thrown into the center of the evil8, and it just looks unrealistic as far as design. Kind of like building a grey house and throwing a little of yellow paint right in the middle of it.
The textures on certain crates are backwards also.

The room with the water on the floor seems kind of pointless, since there isn't any sort of thing around that explains why the water is there to begin with.


There are many spots that have health objects or pick-ups that require air strafing to obtain the item, but they become more of a hassle rather than working with the gameplay. It kind of makes the map suggest that trick jumping is the main source of gameplay rather than battle.


The connectivity in the map is somewhat chaotic, and kind of removes a good flow to fast movement. Normal flow in promode requires very fast movement(bunny-hopping), and there is alot of things(pick-ups)that require you to somewhat go out of the way to pick them up, and removes the quickflow.
The falls to oblivion should be removed. They would be great if the map was a gothic sort of theme, and if someone built a building like this, they wouldn't just forget to close up a major hole in the floor, unless they really wanted someone to die for a reason. =P I'm somewhat of a realist with these sort of things though...it's up to you.

I'm glad to see someone is making new Q3 maps here also...

[Foo]

better make some vq3 maps, they are needet for cpl

I haven't found any CPM maps that weren't also excellent VQ3 maps. The backwards compatability kinda builds itself in, even the gameplay.

then u dont know anything about gameplay

@dzjepp: the cpl will use only new maps this year

Sounds like a stereotypical flawed xsreality troll argument.

[dichtfux]

You should probably find a way to work the eq2 textures into the map rather than the evil8 textures [...].

For example the wall behind the gl has the little part of the mkoxide thrown into the center of the evil8, and it just looks unrealistic as far as design.

Looks like i'll have to work on the texturing of the whole map, I absolutely agree on that. I'll have to think a lot about which textures to choose. I wanted to make a rather modern looking map when I started it - mainly because my first map was a rather ancient / old-style map and because I think that there are less modern looking maps around. This lead to the architecture in most rooms (especially in the water room and the SG room) being rather modern I think. Other rooms would also go well with the oxide textures I think...

The room with the water on the floor seems kind of pointless, since there isn't any sort of thing around that explains why the water is there to begin with.

Yes, thought about that, too. I will add points where it flows into and out of the pool. Apart from there is no realworld setting in the map anyways, it's an arena and that's it. So it flows in and out again, nobody will ever know where it comes from or where it goes ;-)

There are many [...] pick-ups that require air strafing to obtain the item [...]. It kind of makes the map suggest that trick jumping is the main source of gameplay rather than battle.

Really? I think the jumps are all very easy, the only exception being the YA to 50H jump in the water room, and this jump is a rewarded by what you get for it.

The 25H above the gap (near LG) is an extremely easy circle strafe you can't miss, so is the circle strafe to the portable medkit / teleporter in the SG room. Maybe the jump to the 50H in the waterroom from the other side (not from the YA) is a bit harder, too, but it's not really hard for CPM players and you can also take it with a double jump from below. I tested all the jumps in vq3 and they are all possible too (except for the ramp/doubles of course).

Altogether I think that there are harder or equivalent jumps in lots of other CPM maps, for example

- the circle strafe from toplevel to 50H in cpm1a
- teleporter target to YA in cpm1a
- RG to YA and vice versa in cpm3a
- RL to YA/RG in cpm3a
- LG to RA in cpm22
- ... many more

But I'll definitely consider your remarks on the jumps and ask some more people about it. Maybe others here have an opinion on that, too.

The connectivity in the map is somewhat chaotic, and kind of removes a good flow to fast movement. Normal flow in promode requires very fast movement(bunny-hopping), and there is alot of things(pick-ups)that require you to somewhat go out of the way to pick them up, and removes the quickflow.

True. Fixing this now, thanks.

The falls to oblivion should be removed. They would be great if the map was a gothic sort of theme, and if someone built a building like this, they wouldn't just forget to close up a major hole in the floor, unless they really wanted someone to die for a reason. =P I'm somewhat of a realist with these sort of things though...it's up to you.

I see your point. I somewhat need the upper one (@LG/25H) because that part of the map would not work if there simply was a floor. Maybe I could replace the upper one with a water pit and remove the lower one. What do you think?

I'm glad to see someone is making new Q3 maps here also...

:icon14:

Quake 4 won't run on my box anyways.

Thanks again, your comments were very usefull to me!
!

[v1l3]

I think the jumps are all very easy

Very true...their easy movements for myself also(and other experience promode players), which I was kind of leading to the point of fast movement by saying it. The average Cpma players aren't as knowledgable with promode movement though.
The best way to make a promode map, is to be able to mix vQ3 into it also..plus it helps the bots to have the ability of picking up all the items. Botplay is terribly important these days over everything. There are alot more listen servers being ran these days over dedicated ones. It's very upsetting, yet it exists.
I've noticed Cpma is becoming very populated with vQ3 players..since it has kind of achieved what Osp would be...it's actually half and half really. Osp/Cpma.

A good map (for example) that is perfection of mixing it up is pukka3tourney2. Quicker connectivity with use of promode..yet still allowing complete moving coverage for vQ3 play, and getting all of the needed items.

-sorry for the long-winded speech, but it's hopefully good knowledge for you..and others that are still making maps for Osp/Cpma.

[Lukin]

the cpl will use only new maps this year

Seriously? Where you read that? I seriously doubt it.

I haven't found any CPM maps that weren't also excellent VQ3 maps. The backwards compatability kinda builds itself in, even the gameplay.

Don't want to sound like a esreality troll, but a lot of CPM maps, actually most of them, don't fit to vQ3 or at least - are not excellent. Promode has ramp jumps, double jumps, air control, lowered RG damage... Maps that make use of this stuff are rather not playable in vanilla.

[dichtfux]

file updated.
- made bridge look less crappy
- made jumppad shader look less crappy with r_vertexlight 1
- moved items around (out of corners) to improve gameflow
- added target_location markers for TDM
- added info_player_intermission-thingie
- fixed mis-alligned textures on many patches / bezier curves
- stuff i forget atm 'cause it's much too late @ GMT+1

EDIT: file updated again, changes:
- reduced filesize from ~11MB to ~4MB by removing unused textures

[dzjepp]

Seriously? Where you read that? I seriously doubt it.

Funny enough I heard someone say while playing q4 last week that the cpl is going to be dropping q3 as the 2007 game. Who knows eh

[Lukin]

Yeah, a lot of rumors going on... But their player's committee is indeed testing new maps.