So Arnie has to decide over the fate of violent games in CA

[MKJ]

how ironic

http://xbox.ign.com/articles/650/650211p1.html

[Canis]

Lets see...

Terminator, Terminator II, Terminator III, Collateral Damage, The 6th Day, End of Days, Eraser, True Lies, Last Action Hero, Total Recall, Predator, Commando...

Yeah, he'd not be a hypocrite by cutting out violent entertainment...

[Maiden]

Crom!

[Foo]

Late last Thursday the California Legislature passed a bill which would provide stiff penalties to retailers selling violent games to minors, as well as require that mature games be clearly labeled as such.

I don't see how him deciding on this issue would be ironic.

I'll assume you guys just made the loose link in the word 'violence'? Duh.

[Freakaloin]

u know how i said i would kill u last? I LIED!!!

[Canis]

"Hasta la Vist..." oh never mind.

[bitWISE]

Judging by Foo's quote it seems like a good bill to me. But it should also apply to movies.

How do you guys feel about parental advisory CDs? In the case of rap CDs I think they should have an age restriction but rock CDs that have a lot of cussing really don't bother me. I think they need a more detailed rating system on music.

[Nightshade]

I think they need to make prospective parents take an exhaustive exam.

Question 1) Are you a dumbfuck?

Etc., etc.

[+JuggerNaut+]

I don't see how him deciding on this issue would be ironic.

it's not. some people just don't comprehend.

[Grudge]

I agree that small children shouldn't play overly violent games. But that's a parental responsibility, not a legislative one.

[Foo]

What harm does making it legislative have? You agree that the underlying idea is correct, and I don't see why it would be bad to be policing the retail outlets as well.

Fuck, lets put some legal responsibility on big business for a change.

[Turbine]

I think they need to make prospective parents take an exhaustive exam.

Question 1) Are you a dumbfuck?

Etc., etc.

:icon34:

[Canis]

Judging by Foo's quote it seems like a good bill to me. But it should also apply to movies.

How do you guys feel about parental advisory CDs? In the case of rap CDs I think they should have an age restriction but rock CDs that have a lot of cussing really don't bother me. I think they need a more detailed rating system on music.

It's not only about what is being said, but rather how it's being said. Check out the chorus of a rap song by the yin-yang twins:

Ay bitch! wait til you see my dick
Wait til you see my dick
Ay bitch! wait til you see my dick
Imma beat dat pussy up
Ay bitch! wait til you see my dick
Wait you see my dick
Ay bitch! wait til you see my dick
Imma beat dat pussy up

or, by 2Pac:

That's why I fucked your bitch you fat motherfucker...

It's got absolutely no creative or emotional aspect to it. The use of explicits is not justified by any mode of creative ingenuity in the rest of the song. I agree similar things can be said about some rock songs, such as Nine inch Nails' "closer":

I want to fuck you like an animal
I want to feel you from the inside
I want to fuck you like an animal
My whole existance is flawed
You get me closer to god

The first part of that chorus is explicit and has little meaning, but coupled with the rest of the song and the last part of the chorus it really enhances the desperation and message of screwed up dependance the song offers. It's not just about raw sex and lust.

On the other hand, songs can have very sexual meaning without the use of explicit lyrics, such as Dave Matthew's "Crash":

...Hike up your skirt a little more
And show the world to me
Hike up your skirt a little more
And show your world to me
In a boys dream.. in a boys dream
Oh I watch you there
Through the window
And I stare at you
You wear nothing but you
Wear it so well...

It's got the same message about sexual lust, but it's just not so raw and graphic. As a result, it has much more artistic talent behind it and calls for less censorship.

Still, the first two songs have explicit lyrics that should be warned against. I personally would favor the NIN song that has more meaning behind it, so would be more hesitant to warn folks about the content.

This is not to say that all rap should be censored by lumping it into a category of not having any artistic talent or only using explicit lyrics for non-artistic purposes. There are some rap songs that are quite ingeneous, but I'm having a hard time coming up with one that uses explicit lyrics in an artful way, or at least for emphasis on another deeper message in the song.

[MKJ]

What harm does making it legislative have? You agree that the underlying idea is correct, and I don't see why it would be bad to be policing the retail outlets as well.

Fuck, lets put some legal responsibility on big business for a change.

because when some 17 year old kid gets his bday copy of GTA denied that would totally suck.
its a parenting issue indeed, and the parents know their kids best. the fact that the parents understand that a game like GTA isnt suitable for their 7 year old son doesnt mean their 16 year old kid isnt allowed -by law- to play this game.

[R00k]

I think it's a great idea to punish the retailers who sell the games to minors. That would be enforcing the ideal that parents get to make the choice.

It would be a bad idea to try to punish parents and children for buying them though.

I don't personally think it would do much good anyway, since there are too many parents who don't care if their 7-year-old plays GTA.

But at least we'd be able to say then, that it's completely the parents' fault and noone else's. Stores aren't going to sell them to minors if they know they'll get slapped with a fine.

[Foo]

because when some 17 year old kid gets his bday copy of GTA denied that would totally suck.

That's such a minor issue it's barely worth mentioning. It's already quite clear that kids under the specified ages want the games, or the current situation wouldn't exist.

its a parenting issue indeed, and the parents know their kids best.

Partly, but are you also suggesting there should be no legal age on alcohol? This argument seems to lead to this conclusion.

Kids go to friends' houses to play video games. Therefore, even if a parent makes a sound choice for their kids, they can't guard against him going to his friends house and circumventing that. I dunno about you but I must have played like half of all my video games over at a friends house when I was between 12 and 16.

the fact that the parents understand that a game like GTA isnt suitable for their 7 year old son doesnt mean their 16 year old kid isnt allowed -by law- to play this game.

I can't fathom what you're trying to say with this statement.

[MKJ]

heh, the missus was being an enormous distraction when i was writing that last sentence

i guess its a matter of upbringing. i never had to sneak over to a friends house to play a certain game. anyone with the alightest bit of common sense know games&movies arent a re-enactment of real life, nor should the be reenacted IN real life.

thats something i understood when i was like 5 so to me all this is overprotective crap.
i agree with labels though. i just think to make this a strict legal issue is going a bit overboard

[Geebs]

Judging by Foo's quote it seems like a good bill to me. But it should also apply to movies.

How do you guys feel about parental advisory CDs? In the case of rap CDs I think they should have an age restriction but rock CDs that have a lot of cussing really don't bother me. I think they need a more detailed rating system on music.

It's not only about what is being said, but rather how it's being said. Check out the chorus of a rap song by the yin-yang twins:

Ay bitch! wait til you see my dick
Wait til you see my dick
Ay bitch! wait til you see my dick
Imma beat dat pussy up
Ay bitch! wait til you see my dick
Wait you see my dick
Ay bitch! wait til you see my dick
Imma beat dat pussy up

or, by 2Pac:

That's why I fucked your bitch you fat motherfucker...

It's got absolutely no creative or emotional aspect to it. The use of explicits is not justified by any mode of creative ingenuity in the rest of the song. I agree similar things can be said about some rock songs, such as Nine inch Nails' "closer":

I want to fuck you like an animal
I want to feel you from the inside
I want to fuck you like an animal
My whole existance is flawed
You get me closer to god

The first part of that chorus is explicit and has little meaning, but coupled with the rest of the song and the last part of the chorus it really enhances the desperation and message of screwed up dependance the song offers. It's not just about raw sex and lust.

On the other hand, songs can have very sexual meaning without the use of explicit lyrics, such as Dave Matthew's "Crash":

...Hike up your skirt a little more
And show the world to me
Hike up your skirt a little more
And show your world to me
In a boys dream.. in a boys dream
Oh I watch you there
Through the window
And I stare at you
You wear nothing but you
Wear it so well...

It's got the same message about sexual lust, but it's just not so raw and graphic. As a result, it has much more artistic talent behind it and calls for less censorship.

Still, the first two songs have explicit lyrics that should be warned against. I personally would favor the NIN song that has more meaning behind it, so would be more hesitant to warn folks about the content.

This is not to say that all rap should be censored by lumping it into a category of not having any artistic talent or only using explicit lyrics for non-artistic purposes. There are some rap songs that are quite ingeneous, but I'm having a hard time coming up with one that uses explicit lyrics in an artful way, or at least for emphasis on another deeper message in the song.

Bollocks. Possibly racist bollocks, too.

BTW, Foo, do the words NANNY STATE mean anything to you?

[Canis]

Judging by Foo's quote it seems like a good bill to me. But it should also apply to movies.

How do you guys feel about parental advisory CDs? In the case of rap CDs I think they should have an age restriction but rock CDs that have a lot of cussing really don't bother me. I think they need a more detailed rating system on music.

It's not only about what is being said, but rather how it's being said. Check out the chorus of a rap song by the yin-yang twins:

Ay bitch! wait til you see my dick
Wait til you see my dick
Ay bitch! wait til you see my dick
Imma beat dat pussy up
Ay bitch! wait til you see my dick
Wait you see my dick
Ay bitch! wait til you see my dick
Imma beat dat pussy up

or, by 2Pac:

That's why I fucked your bitch you fat motherfucker...

It's got absolutely no creative or emotional aspect to it. The use of explicits is not justified by any mode of creative ingenuity in the rest of the song. I agree similar things can be said about some rock songs, such as Nine inch Nails' "closer":

I want to fuck you like an animal
I want to feel you from the inside
I want to fuck you like an animal
My whole existance is flawed
You get me closer to god

The first part of that chorus is explicit and has little meaning, but coupled with the rest of the song and the last part of the chorus it really enhances the desperation and message of screwed up dependance the song offers. It's not just about raw sex and lust.

On the other hand, songs can have very sexual meaning without the use of explicit lyrics, such as Dave Matthew's "Crash":

...Hike up your skirt a little more
And show the world to me
Hike up your skirt a little more
And show your world to me
In a boys dream.. in a boys dream
Oh I watch you there
Through the window
And I stare at you
You wear nothing but you
Wear it so well...

It's got the same message about sexual lust, but it's just not so raw and graphic. As a result, it has much more artistic talent behind it and calls for less censorship.

Still, the first two songs have explicit lyrics that should be warned against. I personally would favor the NIN song that has more meaning behind it, so would be more hesitant to warn folks about the content.

This is not to say that all rap should be censored by lumping it into a category of not having any artistic talent or only using explicit lyrics for non-artistic purposes. There are some rap songs that are quite ingeneous, but I'm having a hard time coming up with one that uses explicit lyrics in an artful way, or at least for emphasis on another deeper message in the song.

Bollocks. Possibly racist bollocks, too.

BTW, Foo, do the words NANNY STATE mean anything to you?

Bollocks my ass. It's just mere observation...

[Foo]

Good quoting guys.

BTW, Foo, do the words NANNY STATE mean anything to you?

Absolutely. But as I've already said, there are already legal restrictions on movies, if that's OK why not video games?

Second, the bill makes it illegal to sell to minors, it does not make it illegal for a parent to buy for their children. Which entirely nullifies your point.

Instead of throwing buzzwords, how about some content?

[Geebs]

I was pointing out that the whole of Canis' post (summarizable as, "when black guys swear it's obscene; when white guys swear it's art") was bollocks, so I quoted the whole lot.

The bit I was really on about was:

what harm does making it legislative have?

I might have misinterpreted you, though.

[Canis]

I was pointing out that the whole of Canis' post (summarizable as, "when black guys swear it's obscene; when white guys swear it's art") was bollocks, so I quoted the whole lot.

The bit I was really on about was:

what harm does making it legislative have?

I might have misinterpreted you, though.

Now you've just made the stereotype that all rappers are black and all rockers are white, and in your ignorance are associating what I said with racism. You're full of shit. Dont you dare apply racism to me in that way. I mentioned the nature of rap as opposed to the nature of rock, and in no way said or even implied anything about race.

[Nightshade]

Here Geebs illustrates how well conditioned we all are to cry racism whenever anyone black does something that's negative or can be construed as negative.

[+JuggerNaut+]

and the parents know their kids best.

lol no they don't

[MKJ]

and the parents know their kids best.

lol no they don't

+should