women in the workplace

[Ryoki]

Ah, kk
Yeah, maybe that's changing then. Interesting. Have always considered it a typical male profession, seeing as it requires a certain nerdery... at which males usually excel.

[Eraser]

With IT professionals I meant IT technology people. Programmers and technical consultants. Not people at the communication department of an IT company, that doesn't count. The people that clean the toilets of the IBM offices aren't IT professionals either.
Out of 14 programmers here only one is female.

My girlfriend did a nursing study as well and her classes were mostly female dominated. Only a handful of males. The fact that Emka's brother is a nurse and that the midwives practice had male midwives doesn't mean the ratio is anywhere near 50/50. And his company truly is an exception. Female programmers are rare.

[Ryoki]

The people that clean the toilets of the IBM offices aren't IT professionals either.

Well shit, that ain't exactly a fair metaphore

[^misantropia^]

Programmer nerd here.

Datum #1: In all of my career I've only run into two women. They weren't hot either.
Datum #2: My CS freshman's year had three female students out of a total of fifty. All three dropped out in the first year. One was hot, she married a millionaire.

However... Thalia, one of the nrc.next reporters and hawt to boot, uses Ubuntu and is picking up Perl. A nerd's wet dream, that girl.

[Eraser]

shit seems apt

[MKJ]

With IT professionals I meant IT technology people. Programmers and technical consultants. Not people at the communication department of an IT company, that doesn't count. The people that clean the toilets of the IBM offices aren't IT professionals either.
Out of 14 programmers here only one is female.

My girlfriend did a nursing study as well and her classes were mostly female dominated. Only a handful of males. The fact that Emka's brother is a nurse and that the midwives practice had male midwives doesn't mean the ratio is anywhere near 50/50. And his company truly is an exception. Female programmers are rare.

looks like ive only worked at exceptional companies. and as said, i meant programmers.
srsly, it may not be 50/50 but its not 90/10 like youre trying to make it out to be. either that or your company is run by genderbiased people

i refer you to the skewed averages comment a few posts up.

[MKJ]

Ah, kk
Yeah, maybe that's changing then. Interesting. Have always considered it a typical male profession, seeing as it requires a certain nerdery... at which males usually excel.

in a team of three, how many were women way back when at versatel?

[+JuggerNaut+]

Ryoki has a point there. It's probably a case of lots of low paying jobs being heavily dominated by a single gender.

How many male nurses do you see? How many female truck drivers do you see? How many male midwives do you see? How many female IT professionals do you see?

You definitely must live in the woods.

[Eraser]

With IT professionals I meant IT technology people. Programmers and technical consultants. Not people at the communication department of an IT company, that doesn't count. The people that clean the toilets of the IBM offices aren't IT professionals either.
Out of 14 programmers here only one is female.

My girlfriend did a nursing study as well and her classes were mostly female dominated. Only a handful of males. The fact that Emka's brother is a nurse and that the midwives practice had male midwives doesn't mean the ratio is anywhere near 50/50. And his company truly is an exception. Female programmers are rare.

looks like ive only worked at exceptional companies. and as said, i meant programmers.
srsly, it may not be 50/50 but its not 90/10 like youre trying to make it out to be. either that or your company is run by genderbiased people

i refer you to the skewed averages comment a few posts up.

Well my company is located in Rotterdam and certainly not fuckwadville.
I'm not saying the programmer ratio is 90/10 but I don't believe it's 50/50 either.
My girlfriend works as a "jeugdverpleegkundige" (er... youth nurse?) and in a team of 5 people, there's only females. In her previous team there were like 6 or 7 people and only one male (who was the manager and didn't do any actual nursing stuff as far as I know). That doesn't mean that in her field of profession the average is 0/100 but it does confirm that the gender stereotyping of jobs is still very much in effect.

[^misantropia^]

in a team of three, how many were women way back when at versatel?

You've worked at Versahel too? When and where?

[Ryoki]

in a team of three, how many were women way back when at versatel?

I can only remember dudes, but there was a whole floor of techies below us, right? Didn't have much contact with the ones there tbh... You saying it was pretty much an equal ratio there too?

Hang on, which building do you mean, the Versahel HQ or the place we were at first?

We worked there when Zonnet was still alive misantropia 2000-2001 ish i guess. When did you work there..?

[MKJ]

two backend nurds on the floor below us, male :[
however, our frontend team was of 3 and i was the only dude if you can so remember ;o

anyways, its all anecdotal evidence anyway. obviously there will always be some stereotyping, but mostly because the gender's different interests.
to say there is no place for women in the IT or no place for men in Healthcare is really a backwater statement.

misanthrope; 2000-2003. officially worked at Zon but since Zon was the only Versahel daughter that actually made a profit we were all assimilated into the versahel comedy

[Eraser]

to say there is no place for women in the IT or no place for men in Healthcare is really a backwater statement.

I'm not saying anything of the sorts and neither was Ryoki. The point was that a good number of low paying jobs are mainly male dominated just like other high(er) paying jobs are dominated by one gender as well, both for the same reasons. Income or career opportunities has nothing to do with it. Things got derailed and confusing when we couldn't agree on whether or not the job of programmer was still heavily male dominated or not.

[Ryoki]

two backend nurds on the floor below us, male :[
however, our frontend team was of 3 and i was the only dude if you can so remember ;o

Ahhh, right... tbh i never considered them programmers as much as designers Thought that's what you called what you do? Interaction design?

Getting my IT slang all messed up i'm sure, meh :\

[Eraser]

lol, in my experience, interaction designers don't get much further than using Photoshop and a texteditor for stylesheets

[MKJ]

then they should have their businesscards revoked, because a fullfledged interaction designer/ UXer is not supposed to tamper with either.

they should be spending their time concocting wireframes and highlevel journeys instead.

[Eraser]

hook, line and sinker.

[MKJ]

oh..


(i was sizing it up so i could say something along the lines of "must be a woman" )

[Ryoki]

[^misantropia^]

We worked there when Zonnet was still alive misantropia 2000-2001 ish i guess. When did you work there..?

Late 2004 until early 2007, mostly dev work on the front office tools and self service part of the website. I quit a couple of months after it was assimilated into the greater Borg collective of Tele2.

Not that Tele2 was such a bad company. People with more business smarts than Versatel ever had. And they didn't start charging for my employee subscription until two years after the fact. =)

[Eraser]

That explains the sheep obsession

[MKJ]

And they didn't start charging for my employee subscription until two years after the fact. =)

lol same

[HM-PuFFNSTuFF]

What does scared?'s wife think about all of this?

[Kaz]

-

[Grudge]

then they should have their businesscards revoked, because a fullfledged interaction designer/ UXer is not supposed to tamper with either.

they should be spending their time concocting wireframes and highlevel journeys instead.

Heh, I've been working as an interaction designer for 10 years and I use Photoshop or Illustrator every day. Granted, I only do CSS once in a while but none the less.

"Interaction designers" who only do user journeys and never actually design things I usually call "usability experts" or "interaction ergonomics" people.