Quake3World

I really like the way you've done the light beams, it looks much nicer than the horrid little round flares you see in a lot of maps.

My only nitpicks would be that there is a point directly above the plasma gun where spectators can see untextured faces, and that the little triangular bridge the grate texture stops a bit suddenly, maybe a tiny trim wouldn't go amiss there.

That Kell sky would fit quite well. I'm not keen on the current sky, it does look like a bit of a Terragen quickie. It takes a lot longer to get a really good sky out of Terragen than most people tend to put in.

I don't really like the texturing of the post-beta versions of this map; it feels more like a chemical waste dump than like an arena. :icon7: Playing the map in picmip 16 isn't recommendable btw; the slime isn't green anymore but just an unrecognizable hazy white fluid. The spotlights are annoyingly solid too, particularly at the high YA spawn point (it throws a white haze over the screen).

It doesn't look bad at all. You shouldn't make maps for picmip 16 anyways, its not exactly like Quake 3 hurts systems these days.





Anyways, I feel if he was to get the proper .tga textures and use them uncompressed (not these jpeg or jpeg converted ones), then added a tiny bit of fogging over the whole level, then chnaged the sky box, he should be done. But yes, those few little details need tweaking too.

o'dium wrote:You shouldn't make maps for picmip 16 anyways

You should when it's the CPMA crowd you're targetting.

o'dium wrote:its not exactly like Quake 3 hurts systems these days

It isn't for FPS (usually) but for increased visibility. Picmip 16 means less distracting, obfuscating eye-candy.

o'dium wrote:Anyways, I feel if he was to get the proper .tga textures and use them uncompressed (not these jpeg or jpeg converted ones)

It's already a pretty big download at 9 MB. A silly argument in this time of broadband perhaps, but people tend to pick up the smaller maps and skip the larger ones.

What really irks me atm are the slime pools: not their color but their depth. When battling over the RA, it's too easy to fall into them and too hard to get out. Making them a bit more shallow would be a Good Thing IMO.

"You should when it's the CPMA crowd you're targetting."

Yes but as my shots show, its perfectly easy to see those pools so thats not an issue?

"It isn't for FPS (usually) but for increased visibility. Picmip 16 means less distracting, obfuscating eye-candy."

Yes, but again, this issue doesn't matter because you can clearly see the pools...?

"It's already a pretty big download at 9 MB. A silly argument in this time of broadband perhaps, but people tend to pick up the smaller maps and skip the larger ones."

lol, this is another pointless part. pk3 files can be compressed. Jpeg's can not be compressed. tgas can be compressed. The file size will not change if he uses tga OR jpeg, it will be about the same. Add this to the fact hes already using jpeg images saved as tga, (So bad compression but on TGA) and again, this is pointless.

9 meg is nothing.

o'dium wrote:Yes but as my shots show, its perfectly easy to see those pools so thats not an issue?

Try it with r_vertexlight 1 and r_picmip 16.

o'dium wrote:Yes, but again, this issue doesn't matter because you can clearly see the pools...?

I meant general gameplay, not just the pools.

o'dium wrote:lol, this is another pointless part [snip] 9 meg is nothing.

I don't really care about size but others do. If you don't believe, check the ChallengeWorld forums

Lsiten buddy, that "snip" is the part you SHOULD of read. jpegs do NOT compress inside of pk3 files. tga files do. SO, your point is wasted.

o'dium wrote:It doesn't look bad at all. You shouldn't make maps for picmip 16 anyways, its not exactly like Quake 3 hurts systems these days.

I'm very interested how you get the acid look as green as in your image with picmip 16.
On my system the pool looks nearly transparent, that is truly annoying.


- I'll try to reduce the filesize, as I'm able to...
- I'll keep the depth issue of the slimepools in mind. But I want o hear what other think first.
- Skybox looks nice and fits as well, thx Todtsteltzer



Oh and if anyone has some matches on it vs. humans, pls record a demo and I can have a look.
I also try to get it on a public server, it's pity that the Lazery seiies are passlocked.
So if any server admin from europe wants to server, it would be nice !!!

Looking forward for more thoughts

sumatra

The slime is different because its a better, new shader sir

o'dium wrote:The slime is different because its a better, new shader sir

I think I tried your shader as well, that was also my first thought.
I'll try it again tonight, gotta go to work now !
Have a nice day - ...

Hmm, is it just me or does this map scream for a shotgun?

I'm not completely fond of this map, yet. It needs to feel less awkward and should be easier to navigate, more of a cpm3a feeling. Perhaps the map would be even better without the bridges over the slime pits, because you can't slip off the sides accidentally of because of weapon knockback.

I think the ledge along the stairs to YA should be a bit wider, so you can get to the 50 hp a bit easier and intercept your opponent if he's heading for the RA.

The stair jump at RA is a nice touch. It's a quite doable jump.

sumatra wrote:

o'dium wrote:The slime is different because its a better, new shader sir

I think I tried your shader as well, that was also my first thought.
I'll try it again tonight, gotta go to work now !
Have a nice day - ...

Does not work for me, I have used the shader you posted..

Todtsteltzer wrote:Hmm, is it just me or does this map scream for a shotgun?

Thought about that, I think it's not necessary. But where would you have put it though? I want to keep the Plasma, it's very helpful in this map IMO...

Oeloe wrote:I'm not completely fond of this map, yet. It needs to feel less awkward and should be easier to navigate, more of a cpm3a feeling. Perhaps the map would be even better without the bridges over the slime pits, because you can't slip off the sides accidentally of because of weapon knockback.

I think the ledge along the stairs to YA should be a bit wider, so you can get to the 50 hp a bit easier and intercept your opponent if he's heading for the RA.

The stair jump at RA is a nice touch. It's a quite doable jump.

You're very late, I had several alphas of this map in the past (9 to be honestly). Now it's time to kill small/minor issues, no general/major layoutchanges. If you don't like, you have to live with the actual layout .

thanks for comments :icon31:

sum

sumatra wrote: ...

Todtsteltzer wrote:Hmm, is it just me or does this map scream for a shotgun?

Thought about that, I think it's not necessary. But where would you have put it though? I want to keep the Plasma, it's very helpful in this map IMO...
...

Maybe my suggestions will meet with disapproval by cpm players, but I think you could skip the RG or 1 RL to get a SG in:

Version 1, no RG:
LG on current RG spot
SG on current PG spot
PG on current LG spot

Version 2, only upper RL:
LG on current spot of lower RL
SG on current LG spot

I would prefer the latter (the RLs are very close and I can't see the advantage of having two RLs), but it seems two RLs are some kind of standard in cpm duel maps... but then, I don't play cpm .

The shader works for me, make sure you are adding it correctly.

Also check the console for any errors and report back here.

o'dium wrote:Also check the console for any errors and report back here.

There are no errors, the shader looks fine and works fine BUT in picmip-5-or-higher-mode I don't have the same result as on your shots above...

Todtsteltzer wrote:Version 2, only upper RL:
LG on current spot of lower RL
SG on current LG spot

I like that one. But I also see a (CPMA) problem here: player 1 does a run from MH to RA in under five seconds and grabs the RL and RG along the way, meaning player 2 is now stuck with the inferior YA, LG and SG (PG?).

sumatra wrote:

o'dium wrote:Also check the console for any errors and report back here.

There are no errors, the shader looks fine and works fine BUT in picmip-5-or-higher-mode I don't have the same result as on your shots above...

r_picmip 16 is what people use, but as said i didn't tweak everyhting, just picmip.

I figured it out:
If you play in vertexmode (r_vertexlight 2/1) the acid appears almost transparent...
Anyone an idea how to fix this. With other words how to make this shader look green in vertexmode

thanks in advance
sumatra

Since only the first stage gets processed in vertex lighted mode, set its map to a green texture.

Or you could use a vertex_remapshader directive in the worldspawn that points to a single-stage vertex-lit version of the slime shader, if you would prefer to avoid changing the stage order for the lightmapped version of the shader.

Shallow wrote:Or you could use a vertex_remapshader directive in the worldspawn that points to a single-stage vertex-lit version of the slime shader, if you would prefer to avoid changing the stage order for the lightmapped version of the shader.

Is there any tutorial, or am I just invited to read the shader manual again?
Maybe you can explain how to in a few words...

sumatra

"vertexremapshader" "NORMALSHADER;VERTEXSHADER"

Where NORMALSHADER is the lightmapped shader and VERTEXSHADER is the, well, vertex shader
Add a key/value pair to worldspawn for every shader you want remapped but give every key a unique suffix (e.g. vertexremapshader01, vertexremapshader02, etc.).