Anders Behring Breivik sentenced to 21 years

[Insensatez]

I was talking physical harm, not mindfucking others for his own motives.

seriously wtf indeed.

Prisons in northern Europe are all about isolation, you don't let inmates get together in crowded spaces or segregate them by gang affiliation / ethnic background. We generally like our prison populations quiet and controllable, it's crazy, i know.

And he's not some insane killer, he's a political terrorist. People like Breivnik don't make shanks out of toothbrushes and stab the nearest person, they read books.

best post of thread

[Plan B]

He would have been fried in the US.
Well, depending on state.

21 years seems pretty mild.
Even more so considering Norwegian law allows his release only 10 years into the 21 year sentence, if certain criteria are met.
I think those criteria will not be met, or at least be countered and outweighed by Norway's trauma, even if he plays the exemplary prisoner.

After serving his sentence there will be a review to see if he is fit for release, and if not, an additional 5 years of incarceration will be implemented.
I think this will go on indefinitely, until his death. Yay!

[LawL]

Dats cause you ignant. That's the max sentence they can give there IIRC, with the option to extend his sentence parole hearing style when the time comes up, which they'll likely do forever.

It's like I'm reading the OP all over again.

[Psyche911]

Prisons in northern Europe are all about isolation, you don't let inmates get together in crowded spaces or segregate them by gang affiliation / ethnic background. We generally like our prison populations quiet and controllable, it's crazy, i know.

I am in no way defending our prison systems, but it's a bit harder to isolate over 2.2 million inmates compared to Norway's approximately 3,652 according to incarceration rate and population. The real problem is our incarceration rate is 1000% of Norway's.

It's impossible for the US to do anything like you suggest with these numbers. California's prisons are at 200% capacity. We have ten times the amount of inmates serving life sentences as all inmates in Norway. That's just one state! We first need to stop sending people to prison for minor drug offenses and get rid of bullshit like the "Three Strikes" law that sentences people 25 years to life for a 3rd offense, sometimes as minor as receiving stolen property.

Our prison system is FUCKED UP, but until we reduce the number of inmates nothing will or can be done about the fact that our prisons generally just turn out even more hardened criminals.

[seremtan]

"In the safest, most boring country, the worst lone gunman shooting happens. The worst in the world, in history. But it will not make our country worse. The safe, boring democracy will supply him with a defense lawyer as is his right. He will not get more than 21 years in prison as is the maximum extent of the law. Our democracy does not allow for enough punishment to satisfy my need for revenge, as is its intention. We will not become worse, we will be better. We lived in a land where this is possible, even easy. And we will keep living in a land where this is possible, even easy. We are open, we are free and we are together. We are vulnerable by choice. And we will keep on like that, that’s how we want to live. We will not be worse because of the worst. We must be good because of the best."

Some Norwegian guy. Interesting comment.

good comment you mean. i wish more people realised that holding to a belief like this is how you win; spying on everyone's mail is how you lose

[GONNAFISTYA]

I am in no way defending our prison systems, but it's a bit harder to isolate over 2.2 million inmates compared to Norway's approximately 3,652 according to incarceration rate and population. The real problem is our incarceration rate is 1000% of Norway's.

It's impossible for the US to do anything like you suggest with these numbers. California's prisons are at 200% capacity. We have ten times the amount of inmates serving life sentences as all inmates in Norway. That's just one state! We first need to stop sending people to prison for minor drug offenses and get rid of bullshit like the "Three Strikes" law that sentences people 25 years to life for a 3rd offense, sometimes as minor as receiving stolen property.

Our prison system is FUCKED UP, but until we reduce the number of inmates nothing will or can be done about the fact that our prisons generally just turn out even more hardened criminals.

Dude....serious question...but wtf did you think would happen in Norway if the prison system switched to the same moronic "for profit" model of the US?

Correct...they'd have more prisoners and more prisons with more prisoners to fill up the new prisons. Rinse, repeat. It's not that your prison system is fucked, it seems to work fine. The problem is the whole concept of rehab for bringing prison inmates back into society has been completely abandoned in the US favour of - yet again - making killer profits for a handful of assholes. In short: they aren't letting anyone out, never mind just the drug offenses.

It also doesn't help when you have a moronic, violent and authoritarian populace that loves to "punish the bad guy" and scoffs at the very concept of people paying their debt to society.

[plained]

No I didn't. I think he should be put to death, honestly.

u dont think he should serve the people he hurt?

[Doombrain]

i'm sure they'd want him...

[plained]

maybe ur outlook is narrow causing ur limited view

[Psyche911]

I don't understand the question, GKY. I wasn't advocating "big business" prisons at all.

I think we're on the same side, in fact. I absolutely agree it's intended to punish people, not reform them. Nobody in the US cares to reform criminals, nobody gives them jobs once they're out, etc. Our entire society is and always has been about allowing some class to feel superior over others. From slavery, to civil rights, to womens rights, to gay rights. These people will never accept "convicts" as fellow humans who are in need of help.

I was just pointing out that until the drive to incarcerate anyone who's ever broken a law stops, nothing is going to change the objective of prisons from punishment to rehabilitation.

[GONNAFISTYA]

I think we're on the same side, in fact. I absolutely agree it's intended to punish people, not reform them. Nobody in the US cares to reform criminals, nobody gives them jobs once they're out, etc. Our entire society is and always has been about allowing some class to feel superior over others. From slavery, to civil rights, to womens rights, to gay rights. These people will never accept "convicts" as fellow humans who are in need of help.

I was just pointing out that until the drive to incarcerate anyone who's ever broken a law stops, nothing is going to change the objective of prisons from punishment to rehabilitation.

I don't even think the American system is even about punishment anymore...it's simply about keeping people in prison so the prison system makes money and not much beyond that.

And of course the fucking Conservative government of Canada is now seriously considering switching to for-profit prisons, and of course it's to help the business of the PM's personal friends. This country just keeps getting stupider and it's no coincidence that it's in direct correlation to the influence of Alberta (Canada's Texas) on the rest of the country.

If that entire province of cowboy moronic fucks drowned in their own oil I wouldn't lose one minute of sleep.

[losCHUNK]

They gave him everything they could and he will never be free again.

He always said he should be allowed to go free or be killed. Nothing inbetween. His smile was one of knowing, one of sorrow for his country (that it is so "weak") and ultimately one of amusement.

keep off Alan Wake yo

[Tsakali]

It's all fine and dandy, until you realize just how many criminals there are in the US. How many fuckheads choose to be a burden to society.

How can you implement a system that rehabilitates (if even possible) millions of morons? At what point does it feel like the worst of society is unfairly sucking the most resources from the system? And to what end? How often is rehabilitation successful in countries that rave about their superior system?

Some people are just rotten apples. How far should you go to help these people? Should we be allowed by law to chemically treat them against their will for the benefit of society and ultimately theirs? Or should we just dump billions of dollars on pussyfooting around with the possibility of positive results?

This country doesn't even have a proper education system for its "normal" populous let alone the bottom of the barrel.

Sure people make mistakes, and there should be more effort separating the unfortunates from the real bad apples, but IMO there has to be a point where you just say " fuck'em ".

[+JuggerNaut+]

No I didn't. I think he should be put to death, honestly.

u dont think he should serve the people he hurt?

That depends on your definition of serve.

[Psyche911]

Sure people make mistakes, and there should be more effort separating the unfortunates from the real bad apples, but IMO there has to be a point where you just say " fuck'em ".

And what do you do with them at that point? Shoot 'em?

If you're thinking it's a waste of money to try to rehabilitate them, we're already paying $50,000 a year (at least in California) per inmate. You could do a lot with that kind of cash. It's almost the average household incoming here for fucks sake, and it's currently doing nothing to prepare them to be a part of society.

[seremtan]

serve them cocktails?

[HM-PuFFNSTuFF]

It's all fine and dandy, until you realize just how many criminals there are in the US. How many fuckheads choose to be a burden to society.

How can you implement a system that rehabilitates (if even possible) millions of morons? At what point does it feel like the worst of society is unfairly sucking the most resources from the system? And to what end? How often is rehabilitation successful in countries that rave about their superior system?

Some people are just rotten apples. How far should you go to help these people? Should we be allowed by law to chemically treat them against their will for the benefit of society and ultimately theirs? Or should we just dump billions of dollars on pussyfooting around with the possibility of positive results?

This country doesn't even have a proper education system for its "normal" populous let alone the bottom of the barrel.

Sure people make mistakes, and there should be more effort separating the unfortunates from the real bad apples, but IMO there has to be a point where you just say " fuck'em ".

Do you know how many people are in jail in your country for very minor shit? Take them out and the burden decreases greatly.

Critics have lambasted the United States for incarcerating a large number of non-violent and victimless offenders;[100][101] half of all persons incarcerated under state jurisdiction are for non-violent offenses, and 20% are incarcerated for drug offenses (in state prisons, federal prison percentages are higher).[43][102] "Human Rights Watch believes the extraordinary rate of incarceration in the United States wreaks havoc on individuals, families and communities, and saps the strength of the nation as a whole."[

from wikisomethingorother

[Tsakali]

I get that, i really do. my retarded brother got in an argument with his gf a few months ago and he broke one of her windows. She filed a police complaint and he's now pending court with the possibility of a 2 year sentence. LOL what a moron...anyway, I understand the system is "trigger happy" so that needs to be addressed.

[GONNAFISTYA]

If you're thinking it's a waste of money to try to rehabilitate them, we're already paying $50,000 a year (at least in California) per inmate. You could do a lot with that kind of cash. It's almost the average household incoming here for fucks sake, and it's currently doing nothing to prepare them to be a part of society.

Yeah sorry I was high earlier. Your quote is the point I was trying to make and missed that you already made the point cause I was too stoned to see it cause the bong burned my eyes and shit I just got more smoke in them holding the pipe so close to my face while typing this gonna stop now

[Psyche911]

Easy there Cheech.

[Tsakali]

And what do you do with them at that point? Shoot 'em?

put them to work? Have them all have a full time job, in institutions set up properly for an inmate work force.
That should alleviate about half of the cost they impose on society.
If they refuse to work or are just too far gone to even function around other people, then you disallow what little benefits they have to enjoy from day to day... Lets just write up those really rotten apples as a inescapable cost to a functioning society...sure beats having them running around free.


Or just ship all the lifers to a chinese managed prison. Cut your costs down to almost nothing and give any prospecting criminals something to really think about. Your rights? fuck you lifer, you have no rights.

[Whiskey 7]

serve them cocktails?

A cocktail? A deadly mixture via syringe?

So my 2 cents.

IMHO some crimes against humanity are only satisfied by immediate death! This would be how the majority of the race feels I believe.

Why do some who commit such crimes suicide shortly after? Seems only fitting IMO.

The longer we wait after the offence the less important it becomes to seek retribution and the "do gooders" get a leg in the door of compassion.

Life in prison maybe a fitting, albeit alternate substitute but we as a race pay for the offender to continue to breath.
Trust me as I have met some people who would make you
They all seem normal enough but the crimes they did defy belief.

Death penalty? Yes for some for sure

Enough said for now

[Eraser]

Tsakali paints the picture too black-and-white.
I bet most people in prison, in any country, are there because they grew up in an environment where criminality is the most certain way of income. I'm willing to bet most incarcerated people would rather have a 9 to 5 desk job than having to deal drugs in sleazy back alleys. These are people that can be helped and reformed into valuable members of society. But instead the blood hungry, self-proclaimed "liberals" are just calling for tougher punishment instead of rehabilitation programs.

[Whiskey 7]

Tsakali paints the picture too black-and-white.
I bet most people in prison, in any country, are there because they grew up in an environment where criminality is the most certain way of income. I'm willing to bet most incarcerated people would rather have a 9 to 5 desk job than having to deal drugs in sleazy back alleys. These are people that can be helped and reformed into valuable members of society. But instead the blood hungry, self-proclaimed "liberals" are just calling for tougher punishment instead of rehabilitation programs.

Agreed wholeheartedly Eraser.
Some can be directed to rehabilitation, they need to want, participate and succeed, others simply cannot (err, maybe read, should not).
I would this this offender cannot.

[MKJ]

and that last senctence (sans errors) is why he will never be let go. after 10 years he'll be up for evaluation and he'll say the exact same things about society and his country than he did during this trial, showing he's not fit to be released.