Canadians....abo0t the other election coming this year...

[shadd_]

nobody is doubting climate change. no one can deny the earth has been warming since the end of the last ice age.

the question is what impact humans are having on the process. even without humans the earth would still continue to warm, as it has been doing for thousands of years. do co2 emissions from natural process remain constant or do they accelerate as temperatures warm? so many variables and inter-related causes.

we need to continue research. hopefully we can give other variables an honest look and not miss something that's right under our noses due to tunnel vision.

Well..you really didn't address my point...which was what's responsible for climate change...instead of whether or not it's happening.

Don't forget that just a few years ago the argument was that climate change isn't happening AND humanity couldn't be responsible. Now that the naysayers about climate change even happening have been silenced and that we've established that it IS happening the naysayers have shifted their argument to focus on man's responsibility. I have no doubt that in the future when naysayers finally admit humanity is at fault they'll begin arguing what is needed to combat it.

In my opinion, people who change their minds like that really don't know what they're talking about to begin with...and because of that should have no place in discussions about how to solve it. Why? Because they'll do nothing but slow it down.

Seriously dude...get your head out of your ass and join the rest of us.

not true. why would anyone ever say climate change doesn't exist when glaciers have been shrinking for the last 10,000 years? we are in a warming trend, fact. the earths temperature has continually risen before man ever used carbon fuels, fact. is the current trend being accelerated by man? maybe. but it can only be accelerated by and not caused by man.

i'm all for the environment, i hate alberta. i just happen to have lived in small rural areas throughout canada that have been affected by pseudo-science organizations such as greenpeace and the sierra club.

[GONNAFISTYA]

not true. why would anyone ever say climate change doesn't exist when glaciers have been shrinking for the last 10,000 years?

Exactly. Why would someone deny the obvious. Which is exactly what naysayers have been doing: presenting nonsense arguments which cloud the debate and lead to people not knowing what's going on. Once again, you seem to be ignoring what I'm saying to you.

the earths temperature has continually risen before man ever used carbon fuels, fact.

Not true at all and definitely not a fact. You're forgetting the global tropical conditions millions of years ago and the many ice ages that have occurred since then...they do not indicate continual temperature increases.

is the current trend being accelerated by man? maybe. but it can only be accelerated by and not caused by man.

Where in the world do you get this assertion from? And what makes you come to the conclusion that acceleration does not equal initial cause? Is this based on your false belief that the Earth has been continually warming throughout it's history?

i'm all for the environment, i hate alberta. i just happen to have lived in small rural areas throughout canada that have been affected by pseudo-science organizations such as greenpeace and the sierra club.

Just because a few overzealous organizations do some whacky things from time to time does not mean that man-made climate change can be dismissed. Wake up.

[shadd_]

what? i said the earth has been warming since the end of the last ice age, not since the beginning of time. re-read.

where do i get the assertion that we've been in a warming trend? find a graph of the earths temp. from 10,000 years ago to today. it's pretty self explanatory.

show me some data that proves the earths temperature has ever been static. maybe a few years here and there but not any sort of time frame that matters to the history of the earth.

now lets get something straight, I"M NOT DENYING OR SUPPORTING GLOBAL WARMING. if puff was an adamant naysayer, i would be putting forth arguments for man made climate change.

basically what you guys are saying is man made climate change is %100. no more effort should be put into study. what would be the purpose if we already know everything about it, right?

[Massive Quasars]

shadd_,

None of us are climate experts, but we appreciate the consensus that has emerged among a decisively vast majority of this lot. The man-made climate change impetus/contribution was more controversial in 1998, arguments were reasonably tenable then, but this no longer remains the case. Such is the strength of evidence.

At it's core, this scientific consensus states that a climate warming period is upon us, it's pace will likely increase, and that man-made activities are a significant/primary contributing cause.

The degree of future warming, the margin for adaptability of ecosystems without significant upheaval (i.e. tolerance of such warming), the economic consequences, etc. ... these are issues very much open to reasonable debate.

You are not denying climate warming, I understand. Likewise, you should understand that the human causal component argument is now quite nearly as strong by most respects.

[Bilirubin]

Holy wall of text batman!

Green Party = stay at home protectionism. Conservative style. Icky. I'll stick with Jack.

[GONNAFISTYA]

NDP got my vote.

[HM-PuFFNSTuFF]

I went Green although NDP will probably win my riding. Chow Chow Chow.

[shadd_]

NDP for me. they always seem to champion issues that matter to my region.

[GONNAFISTYA]

I hate to say it...but I noticed another "right wing" thing about Canada today that I didn't really notice until now: While I was walking to the community centre to vote I saw two Montreal police officers arresting a man while a woman (his partner I guess) was crying. The guy was drunk (and near a group of other drunk street people) so I guess he mouthed off and the cops had an excuse. I bet $50 the cops were just driving by and harassed the street people as I doubt anyone called the cops on them.

The whole thing was harmless. The officer took his time putting the handcuffs on him as he offered no resistance and the female officer was consoling the crying woman. No chance of real violence breaking out. But the cops were all decked out in bullet-proof body armour. Is it the same in every neighborhood in every major city in Canada? Cops wear body armour in Winnipeg but that's because Winnipeg is a shithole...it's a large part of the reason I couldn't wait to leave there.

I hadn't really noticed it, but "public safety enforcers" wearing body armour does not give me a feeling of security. I'm just of the opinion that if public safety fears for their lives while walking public streets how am I supposed to feel?

I truly hope the day comes when we smarten up as a species and - like fundamental religious dogma - we ignore the ruthlessness of retardation in genuine western democratic policy discussion....such as making your police force look like stormtroopers as a show of authority.

[Dark Metal]

GKY sometimes you make sense, and sometimes you're a fucking moron. This time is the latter.

[GONNAFISTYA]

fuck u...

[obsidian]

I actually agree with Dark Metal. If I were a police officer, I'd want to wear a bulletproof vest just in case some crazy comes at me spraying bullets. It has to do with self preservation and nothing to do with intimidation.

It's like telling a construction worker to not wear his yellow helmet because it sends the message that he's working in a potentially unsafe environment which may distress passersby.

Voted this morning, BTW.

[GONNAFISTYA]

Don't get me wrong...I completely agree that police should have protection if needed. Some neighborhoods are obviously worse than others. But every fucking cop I've seen in Canada, London, Copenhagen and other "supporters of the war on terror" look like they're ready for "something big". Just to give perspective, cops patrolling the streets of Berlin don't look like hockey players. Why does Canada's police need to?

My point is that it simply seems fucked up when I see cops in vests. I'm gonna sound like an old man here but "back in the day" cops didn't feel the need to wear them. This goes to my earlier point about a more paranoid approach...which seems to have slipped past the notice of some Canadians.

[Ryoki]

Over here the cops only don their vests on the most special occasions, like armed robbery or potentially violent drug busts or the police ball.

[obsidian]

Just to give perspective, cops patrolling the streets of Berlin don't look like hockey players. Why does Canada's police need to?

Because Canadian cops never know when the neighbourhood kids are going to bring out the nets for some good old street hockey. Safety first, kids!


BTW, lol Berlin cop uniforms.

[lvlshot]http://www.igallopon.com/images/lederhosen.jpg[/lvlshot]

[GONNAFISTYA]

Because Canadian cops never know when the neighbourhood kids are going to bring out the nets for some good old street hockey. Safety first, kids!

lol

Some cops I know would pepperspray an opposing kid on a breakaway.

I just hope it doesn't one day come to the point where I have fellow Canadians poo pooing me for criticizing street cops carrying G36s instead of their current "popshooter" handguns.

[Tormentius]

...such as making your police force look like stormtroopers as a show of authority.

Police deal with criminals for a good portion of their day. Since violence against officers in larger cities is an almost daily occurrence the body armour is for their protection. It has nothing at all to do with a "show of authority" . Its the same as a construction worker wearing a hardhat and steeltoes...safety tools of the trade.

Green would have gotten my vote but their stance on the long gun registry and hunting weren't platforms I agreed with.

I've seen nothing done under the BC Liberal rule about the epidemic-level drug use and homelessness problems out here and the judges effectively neutralize anything the police can do by turning these people right back out onto the streets again while BC politicians do nothing. Provincial governmental incompetence, the carbon tax, unrealistic financial promises, and my general dislike of Dion ruled out a Liberal vote. "Maybe" the recently introduced drug courts in BC can help but historically the differences those courts have made elsewhere have been minimal.

So my vote was for the Conservatives since they support further reducing the deficit, increasing funding for our shabbily equipped military, and introducing bills for mandatory sentences for violent gun crimes. What a novel concept: punish the slime who offend rather than institute unrealistic bans for everyone. I don't agree with all of their policies by any means and they're more to the right than most of my political leanings but given the aforementioned they were my choice.

[HM-PuFFNSTuFF]

And that ladies and gents is a Canadian westerner in a nutshell.

[plained]

i disagree puff

torms exhibited many many lamma traita of moron b4 this so this is no surprise.

there are plenty of common sense type westerners!

...such as making your police force look like stormtroopers as a show of authority.

Police deal with criminals for a good portion of their day. Since violence against officers in larger cities is an almost daily occurrence the body armour is for their protection. It has nothing at all to do with a "show of authority" . Its the same as a construction worker wearing a hardhat and steeltoes...safety tools of the trade.

Green would have gotten my vote but their stance on the long gun registry and hunting weren't platforms I agreed with.

I've seen nothing done under the BC Liberal rule about the epidemic-level drug use and homelessness problems out here and the judges effectively neutralize anything the police can do by turning these people right back out onto the streets again while BC politicians do nothing. Provincial governmental incompetence, the carbon tax, unrealistic financial promises, and my general dislike of Dion ruled out a Liberal vote. "Maybe" the recently introduced drug courts in BC can help but historically the differences those courts have made elsewhere have been minimal.

So my vote was for the Conservatives since they support further reducing the deficit, increasing funding for our shabbily equipped military, and introducing bills for mandatory sentences for violent gun crimes. What a novel concept: punish the slime who offend rather than institute unrealistic bans for everyone. I don't agree with all of their policies by any means and they're more to the right than most of my political leanings but given the aforementioned they were my choice.

moron alert...

[GONNAFISTYA]

lol

Yeah...Canada is a violent wasteland where cops get assaulted everyday....which of course necessitates all patrol officers to be issued body armour and rocket launchers.

And yes Tormentius...after reading that you think street people are a real problem and the police turn them "right back on the streets" I'd say the cops wearing body armour has everything to do with a "show of authority"....and I'm sure you prefer it that way to show them fuckin street people who's boss.

Paying down the deficit (a hollow election promise from any politician who boasts it), increasing funding for the military (great fucking idea when you bitch about homeless people) and mandatory sentences for violent gun crimes? Besides some nutter chopping a guy up on a Greyhound just how much violent crime (and specifically violent gun crime) do you think occurs in this country?

You really do have a fucked up perspective of Canada and are the perfect target for their backwards platform.

[HM-PuFFNSTuFF]

i disagree puff

torms exhibited many many lamma traita of moron b4 this so this is no surprise.

there are plenty of common sense type westerners!

I'm just saying that he fits a certain demographic. Perfectly.

[Therac-25]

Voted Green. May has been the only halfway competent leader this time around.

Not that it makes a difference in my solidly red riding.

[Captain]

Voted NDP.

[Tormentius]

lol

Yeah...Canada is a violent wasteland where cops get assaulted everyday....which of course necessitates all patrol officers to be issued body armour and rocket launchers.

Actually I'm taking criminology with joining a municipal force in mind, know Vancouver PD officers and other municipal police personally, and all of my criminology instructors to date have been officers or involved with the local or provincial criminal justice system. I'll take their word over your uninformed opinion any day GFY.

Cops get assaulted every single day in Van and violence is a daily occurrence. All it takes to find out is talking to them on the street, at a bar, concert, etc. Most of them are more than happy to talk about the pros and cons of the job. Unfortunately, most of it is part of the homeless and drug-addiction problem Vancouver is facing at the moment. A big part of that very problem is the BC Liberals absolutely gutting the mental health budgets and shutting down institutions and the majority of group homes. FFS, our bus drivers here get violently assaulted more than once a week. It didn't used to be that way but it unfortunately has become that way over the past number of years.

lol
I'd say the cops wearing body armour has everything to do with a "show of authority"....and I'm sure you prefer it that way to show them fuckin street people who's boss.

If you stand the risk of being shot in your day to day job as officers do, then armour only makes sense. That, combined with a massive surge in homicides over the past 3 years in BC makes it a viable and necessary safety measure for the men and women putting their ass on the line for us daily and dealing with well-armed and violent gangs vying for control of an increasingly lucrative meth, coke, and heroin market.

It has nothing to do with "showing the street people who's boss". However, if those people are dangerously self-medicating, harassing other law-abiding citizens, or committing criminal acts then they need to be separated from the rest of society until they can be rehabilitated, if that is possible.

Paying down the deficit (a hollow election promise from any politician who boasts it), increasing funding for the military (great fucking idea when you bitch about homeless people) and mandatory sentences for violent gun crimes? Besides some nutter chopping a guy up on a Greyhound just how much violent crime (and specifically violent gun crime) do you think occurs in this country?

The Conservatives have been consistently making progress on the deficit since they came into power. That doesn't ring too hollow for me, especially after lowering the GST by a very sizable amount. I compared their platform to the other parties and liked their stances the most out of the bunch after considering all the perspectives. I personally hope the Conservatives pull off a minority government again so their good ideas can be pushed through with the cooperation of the other parties and that the more unrealistic ideas can be prevented by those same parties.

Note to the Americans: Puff and GFY make it sound like the Conservatives are Bush and Co Junior. They're actually far closer to the Democratic US platform than the Republican.

As for violent gun crime GFY why don't you start reading news from out here or even in Toronto over the past 3 years? You'll find your own answers if you even put half an effort in. Gun violence is on the increase, most often initiated by gang members. Banning all guns is useless since the majority are smuggled in from the US illegally anyways so enacting laws which put the people committing gun crimes behind bars rather than serving community service is a really good start. That also lets those of us who own guns and are responsible continue to enjoy our sport.

You really do have a fucked up perspective of Canada and are the perfect target for their backwards platform.

I live in downtown Vancouver, one of the most multicultural cities in the world and have for years. I'm involved in the local communities of the area and read my news from a number of sources (local and international) to get the most balanced spread of viewpoints possible. My friends are very Liberal (surprise surprise) and range from vehement atheists to Christian pastors. The social class of those folks range from dirt poor to really rich and that, in my opinion, is what makes this city a great place.

It is funny to read a comment on perspective coming from you though, a guy who only moved back to Canada earlier this year after being away for quite a number of years. You're hardly one to talk about a "perspective of Canada".

The thing that makes democracy interesting is the number of different opinions. I'm not claiming mine are completely right, and if your head isn't firmly up your ass you know yours aren't either. Its the mix of differing perspectives that make elections an interesting time. We'll have to wait a for a few more hours to see how it all turns out.

[[xeno]Julios]

Green all the way, i don't care who the fuck is likely to win riding - i vote for the party i like.