UK Elections

[syp0s]

double post

[losCHUNK]

Ok more Tory rhetoric, labour had the deficit down to its lowest level since ww2, they lent less in 12 years than the Torys have done in the last 4, the Torys also pledged in 06 ? To match labours spending and voted in favour of and supported it, following suite of every modern country. The rhetoric is that labour is responsible for the deficit where as the global crash is.

Now the recovery at the moment is for the rich, gdp per person(a good indicator of economic health) has been flat since 2007, all while the cost of living is rising. We have the highest rates of child poverty since the 1920s, the recovery were seeing at the moment is from relaxed banking restrictions and the rise in the housing market, a bubble the Torys are desperately trying to maintain, the same thing that assisted the global crash and reason the Torys are still beating labour up with. The economy has been stifled by under investment.

All this is backed up by the ONS n all

[losCHUNK]

The bubble will pop again soon n all, the economy's up and down more than a hoes head. America took the opposite approach and chose to invest at a time when their economy is similiar, possibly worse than ours and they are recovering.

[syp0s]

It's all shit apparently, yet I'm personally doing brilliantly, and business is better for me and every other business owner I know.

But according to Loschunk, mouthpiece of 17 year old guardian readers everywhere, it's all shit.

[losCHUNK]

Like I said, backed up by the stats I've mentioned, you're welcome to pull them apart

Happy for you and your friends though, surprised you have time to read the tory graph with all their unfounded bullshit that your lot are peddling, you're sposed to be hard at work.

[Don Carlos]

Somehow we have arrived at a point where the conscientiously held beliefs and values of the majority of the population have become a matter for secret shame. The desire to do as well as you can in life, to develop your potential and expect to be rewarded for it, to provide your family with the greatest possible opportunity for self-improvement and to do that on your own without being dependent on the state – these are the assumptions that seem to have become so unacceptable that identifying with them is beyond the pale, or at least so socially outrageous that it is not worth the ignominy of admitting to them.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/general ... ified.html

[syp0s]

Like I said, backed up by the stats I've mentioned, you're welcome to pull them apart

Happy for you and your friends though, surprised you have time to read the tory graph with all their unfounded bullshit that your lot are peddling, you're sposed to be hard at work.

I think in your mind you sound like some unique one man political think tank, but the reality is that you're spewing the same boring, pointless drivel that can be found coming out of the mouth of any anti-Tory. I don't even vote Tory. I spoiled my ballot this year, and last election I voted Lib Dem. Everything you're saying is stuff you've heard other people say, or pulled from agenda-driven websites. Honestly, you're just so hackneyed and unoriginal.

And seriously, well done on predicating that the "bubble will pop" (another cliche you read somewhere). I mean, it's not like anyone else is aware that a system that demands infinite growth might require resetting every so often. It's the bloody Tories' fault!

If you want to come across as authentically left, look at Seremtan. He manages to be a leftie without coming across as a lecturing, insufferable, child.

If you're a day under 40 giving me those opinions, you can go fuck yourself and come back when you've got a couple of kids, a few business and a couple of mortgages. You'll soon change your tune.

[losCHUNK]

I think you're up your own arse, but opinions.

What i've done is argue the Tory rhetoric that is prevalent in some of the posters of this thread and not one counter has been offered in return, instead I get called a political warrior for pointing out shit that is as clear as day and should be easy to address. I am not politically motivated, this is the 1st time I have ever voted and if I felt the Torys were going in the right direction, that they were honest and that it does benefit the country (and everyone in it) then I would be on there side without any doubt. I don't read newspapers, I'm in a pretty diverse area that voted Tory, UKIP, Plaid and Labour and have friends that voted that way with the majority of information I'm presenting in this thread coming from the ONS website, which I think we can agree is not agenda driven. No one in my family was politically motivated and the only advice that I have ever been given is to support the party that puts the most money in your back burner so if anyone was going to change their mind with a convincing discussion it would be me.

If you want a discussion then atleast engage but just attacking an ideological stance because you and your mates are doing ok and devaluing my opinion for *reasons* just makes you sound like a high and mighty prick, you don't know my background but from the sounds of it you think I collect my giro on a bi weekly basis and raise a family on tax payers money.

and growth overtakes demand which is what creates a bubble, not infinite growth that you point out. Growth works in tandem with supply and demand and hard 'resets' aren't needed if you're doing it properly, otherwise every bloody market around the world would be crashing and growing (not deflating - crashing). I said the market that's causing the problem, it's not like I'm pointing anywhere and said where the UK growth is coming from.

1 post above yours there's someone doing the exact thing I'm being accused of n all - politics from an anti-labour mouthpiece that can be found coming out the mouth of any Tory based on an opinion formed by someone else.

[syp0s]

Zzzzzzzzzzzz

[losCHUNK]

Still nothing ?

You could've just stuck your dick in your own arse and saved me from doing it for you

[syp0s]

I like how you say "still nothing" as if you've been dominating me, rather than me simply being completely bored by everything you write.

I promise you, nothing you say in regards to politics is either original or interesting. You're utterly insipid to me.

[syp0s]

I have nothing against you personally though, you just have an awfully ignorant understanding of actual politics, and what you do know you explain in a patronising way as if you're talking to people who've never heard of politics before, or read a newspaper.

[losCHUNK]

Same, but majority of what I've wrote is in response to people on this forum, it's counter arguements that can be retorted to and no bastard is. You for example do > appear < to have your had rammed up your arse by saying 'no' and not engaging, saying 'well I'm better off, so everyone else must be too' or 'Just work harder'.

I can understand the ideological difference, you believe wealth trickles down basically and I believe people need the tools to improve, so to speak. I could get into that arguement but we would be here washing each other in literature and getting nowhere with Guardian and Telegraph arguements coming from everywhere.

What I've tried to do is show easy and factual information surrounding Tory VS Labour in response to posters. Someones beating Labour for the deficit ?, well I gave a retort that seems pretty solid. TBH I don't think that has been mentioned enough either as a lot of people do not seem aware of it.

It's not meant to be preachy, or come across as ignorant, it's meant to be simple and to the point, If what I am saying is same old then it should be easily addressed. A lack of response, failing to discuss the wider picture past your front door and downplaying others is the definition of ignorance imo.

[scared?]

I have to agree with the midget on this one... Red font guy is a boring incoherent retard... Can never get past one sentence of his red fonted moronics before moving to the next post...

[seremtan]

Cameron and his cronies have done a good job in steering the ship after Labour sailed us into a storm.

i'm no fan of the previous Labour government, but they didn't tank the world economy. the current levels of public debt are a consequence of taking on all the bad *private* debt on to the government's books to stop the entire world getting sucked into a black hole. it's no wonder the opposition to austerity has been so muted when so many people in this country buy into this fairytale of Labour 'overspending'. the real story here is about under-regulation, about allowing banks to over-leverage themselves. Labour can take some share of the blame for that, but then so can the Tories

Pleases remember the way Labour was going to deal with the crisis was to spend their way out. We are in more debt now than we have been for a long time, but we could have been in worse shape.

sorry but you're 100% wrong here, and you need to watch this -



- to understand why. seriously. just fucking watch it

[seremtan]

Somehow we have arrived at a point where the conscientiously held beliefs and values of the majority of the population have become a matter for secret shame. The desire to do as well as you can in life, to develop your potential and expect to be rewarded for it, to provide your family with the greatest possible opportunity for self-improvement and to do that on your own without being dependent on the state – these are the assumptions that seem to have become so unacceptable that identifying with them is beyond the pale, or at least so socially outrageous that it is not worth the ignominy of admitting to them.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/general ... ified.html

Tories increased their share of the vote by 0.8% over 2010. they managed an absolute majority based on a shade under 37% (pathetic - even John Major did better in 1992), and the fact that they are now the sole party of government is an artifact of FPTP

don't kid yourself

[Don Carlos]

Tories increased their share of the vote by 0.8% over 2010. they managed an absolute majority based on a shade under 37% (pathetic - even John Major did better in 1992), and the fact that they are now the sole party of government is an artifact of FPTP

don't kid yourself

Tony Blair 2005 - 35.2% of the vote - still had an absolute majority. The fact that they were the sole party of government is an artifact of FPTP.

And Major got 41.9% of the vote in 1992 - only 1.3% less than Tony and his all singing, all dance band of merry men got in 1997 (Who I voted for, by the way).

[losCHUNK]

And that seems fair ?, were you old enough to vote in 97 ?, I thought there was only a year between us ?.

Like I said reforms been on the table for a while, you can blame labour for not doing it in their reign but they did reform the house f lords and devolved powers to NI, Scotland and Wales to increase representation.

It was that government that made me fuck politics off n all, both parties were the same.

[Don Carlos]

Sorry, should have clarified. I meant that I wasn't bashing Blair - I voted for him when I could vote, twice.

[losCHUNK]

Sorry, should have clarified. I meant that I wasn't bashing Blair - I voted for him when I could vote, twice.

rgr tht

- to understand why. seriously. just fucking watch it

Srsly, watch that ^

[seremtan]

there's a few other talks by Mark Blyth on YT (the one promoting his book about austerity at Google is another good one). i don't know nearly enough about economics to follow some of what he's saying, but he's articulate and can tell a good story to make most of it intelligible to the lay-person

Paul Krugman and Ha Joon Chang are also good (though Chang isn't a great speaker; his books are better)

[losCHUNK]

Cheers, I've made a mental note of him now

I didn't realise how bad the EU zone could have got because of the ECB nor that Greece were virtually fucked before the crash - even before they joined the Eurozone.

I've read a few articles by Krugman, someone else pointed him out to me

Now, every piece of this story is demonstrably, ludicrously wrong. Pre-crisis Britain wasn’t fiscally profligate. Debt and deficits were low, and at the time everyone expected them to stay that way; big deficits only arose as a result of the crisis. The crisis, which was a global phenomenon, was driven by runaway banks and private debt, not government deficits. There was no urgency about austerity: financial markets never showed any concern about British solvency. And Britain, which returned to growth only after a pause in the austerity drive, has made up none of the ground it lost during the coalition’s first two years...

...But hard thinking has been virtually excluded from British public discourse. As a result, we just have to hope that whoever ends up running Britain’s economy isn’t as foolish as he pretends to be.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/08/opini ... ul-krugman

I thought in the live debates that Ed should've pushed the point home, he seemed pretty limp wristed when it came to defending Labour during the crisis, mainly due to Labour allowing the fairytale to take hold and become irrefutable since the last election

It was obvious this was going to be THE main sticking point of the election.

[seremtan]

there was a clip played on Have I Got News For You where someone in the audience during the leaders debates called him a liar for claiming that the debt wasn't a consequence of Labour over-spending - and his feeble response was "well obviously i'm not going to convince you"

not like that you aren't Ed, you twat

[seremtan]

there's no cure for being a cunt

[losCHUNK]

[lvlshot]http://i.imgur.com/5ozkaFp.jpg[/lvlshot]