Advice on new PC or laptop

[dONKEY]

So my old HP pavillion laptop finally died. I need a new machine for general work, but also level design and gaming. Any of you guys got any suggestions? PC or laptop? Good quality powerful machine that isn't going to cost the price of a small car?

[AEon]

One suggestion would be to get one from a discounter. Here in Germany the PC's from the Aldi food chain, are pretty good, for an allround PC, and do not cost the world 400-500 EU. The one my Dad got was even a Quadcore, though not a i7 920, i5 IIRC. And usually HDD space and memory are more than enough.

The only downside, the mainboard is not top notch and neither is the gfx card. So for "serious" gaming such a PC would probably be too slow.

In general:

• Windows 7 Pro (64bit),
• and at least an Intel Core i7 920 2.67GHz,
• and at least 6 GB RAM would be my recommendation.
• And an Asus mainboard (ASUS P6T Deluxe V2 X58 S1366 ATX).
• I prefer ATi cards so I wend for (1024MB Powercolor Radeon HD5850) back then.
• While at it, get an SSD (Solid State Drive) at with least 80 GB (I have an Intel SSD X25-M Postville 80 GB 2.5" SATA II) as Windows boot drive.
• Everything connected by SATA (also the DVD burner).

My PC is 37 months old now, so there is bound to be very much better hardware out there. But as a base line the above should be a good lower end.

Obsidian recommended most of my PC's specs back then, I am sure he is still on top of the hardware subject.

[cityy]

You don't really need Windows 7 Professional IMHO.
Personally, I'd always prefer a tower PC over a laptop - price/value for towers is better in terms of hardware and I can connect up to 2 (or 3 with a recent ATI card) monitors to it to get the space I need for working.

[obsidian]

Anything other than casual gaming on a laptop sucks. Gaming laptops run much too hot (and are therefore prone to break), are too heavy and way too expensive to be worthwhile. You are better off buying a powerful desktop and then picking up a cheaper laptop or even tablet for portability.

It's hard recommending anything without a budget. $8000 is still cheaper than a small car and I can put together a dual CPU workstation with multiple GPUs for that price, though I don't think that's what you're looking for. So what's your budget? Under $2000? Under $1000?

Also, anything you can salvage from your existing stuff? It's a laptop, so not much in internal hardware (yank the HDD maybe), but do you have peripherals like keyboard/mouse, monitors, speakers? You'll have to take what you don't have and minus the cost from your total budget.

General tips outside of hardware specs (because no budget yet):

• Agree with cityy, just Windows Home Premium license is all you need. The only reason why I have Win7 Ultimate (and Win8 Pro sitting in a box) is because that's what Microsoft mailed me.
• Do go with 64-bit unless you want to be stuck with under 4GB of allocatable memory addresses (Don't worry, 32-bit applications run perfectly fine on 64-bit hardware/OS. Further benefit, GtkRadiant and Q3Map2 will soon be coming with a 64-bit Windows release).
• Try and get an SSD regardless of budget, they are quite affordable these days and you can easily get a 128GB or larger drive for OS and applications that will be a big performance benefit.
• Always buy a decent name brand PSU with enough power to handle your hardware. Worst deal is buying a super $3000 computer and having it fry when the cheapo $50 PSU blows.
• Assuming you're getting a desktop, build it yourself. It's not hard, everything in a modern computer snaps in place. The trickiest part is researching parts and not doing something silly like buying an Intel processor with an AMD socket motherboard. Other than that, all the other slots are standardized and universal.

I'll post again if you post more details.

[kaustic]

I build all of my computers and its definitely not that difficult. The only problem with buying all of your parts online is
if something shows up and doesn't work you have to go through the hassle of sending it back and then getting another.
So if you can find a store locally it would make things easier in that regard .
I have an ASUS M/B and I have to say that it was really easy setting it up.

[cityy]

The only problem with buying all of your parts online is
if something shows up and doesn't work you have to go through the hassle of sending it back and then getting another.
So if you can find a store locally it would make things easier in that regard .

This!

Edit: But then again, it is the same with laptops.

[dONKEY]

Thanks for advice. As to budget, probably around s$3000. Building my own machine isn't really an option as the availability of parts here is limiting. I could buy stuff online, but again delivery/shipping is problematic.

[obsidian]

You're in Singapore these days, no? Aren't most the components made in the region (China/Taiwan/Malaysia)? Surely people in Singapore use computers still and there must be a market for gaming enthusiast PCs.


$3000 is a nice big budget. FYI, I'm copying/pasting this from someone else's build but it's more or less what I would get:

CPU: Intel Core i7-3770K 3.5GHz Quad-Core Processor ($329.99 @ Newegg)
CPU Cooler: Noctua NH-D14 65.0 CFM CPU Cooler ($94.99 @ Newegg)
Motherboard: ASRock Z77 Extreme6 ATX LGA1155 Motherboard ($163.49 @ Newegg)
Memory: G.Skill Ares Series 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR3-1600 Memory ($114.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: Seagate Barracuda 2TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($99.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: Samsung 840 Pro Series 256GB 2.5" Solid State Disk ($249.99 @ Newegg)
Video Card: Gigabyte Radeon HD 7970 GHz Edition 3GB Video Card ($449.99 @ Newegg)
Case: Cooler Master HAF X ATX Full Tower Case ($199.99 @ Newegg)
Power Supply: Corsair Enthusiast 750W 80 PLUS Bronze Certified ATX12V / EPS12V Power Supply ($99.99 @ Newegg)
Operating System: Microsoft Windows 8 (OEM) (64-bit) ($99.99 @ Newegg)
Total: $1903.40

Some personal preference notes:

The CPU does come with a heatsink and fan. If you're not overclocking, the Noctua aftermarket CPU cooler is optional.

I'm not a fan of ASRock motherboards. I prefer Asus or Gigabyte. The one listed is a bit of a mid-range motherboard that will do the job, but since you have a rather large budget you can spring for one with all the trimmings if you plan on tinkering with overclocking (~$280). If not overclocking, you can go with something a little more middle of the road (~$180). (IMPORTANT NOTE: the Intel i7-3770K uses a Z77 chipset, so whatever motherboard you pick needs to have that compatibility.)

Personally, I like Nvidia cards but that's my preference. So I would have gotten an Nvidia GeForce GTX 680 instead of the 7970. Both are great cards and everyone will have their preference (as AEon mentioned, he prefers AMD/ATI).

Computer cases are about personal preference, so find one that you like the look of. I like the Corsair Obsidian series, and not just because they named it after me.

That still leaves plenty of room for peripherals like keyboard, mouse, monitor, speakers, drawing tablet, extra software, etc.

[fKd]

"Operating System: Microsoft Windows 8 (OEM) (64-bit) ($99.99 @ Newegg)"

dont do it, find a copy of windows 7 64bit.

[obsidian]

It's rather hard finding Windows 7 these days and I agree that I prefer it to Windows 8. That said, Windows 8 has some nice improvements as well, it's just that it has absolutely horrible UI design if you are using it on anything other than a touchscreen device. As mentioned above, I have Windows 8 sent to me from Microsoft and I haven't used it at all.

[AEon]

About the Tower:

• ATX Midi Cooler Master HAF Mini RC-922M-KKN1-GP - black (mine)
  About the Tower... these HAF towers really push a lot of air through them, thus all your components stay nice and cool, and as we know the less temperature-wise your setup is on edge the longer it will last. Overclocking will then not be so much on edge. Oh... I noted that the midi towers are large enough by far, I would not bother with a full sized tower.
• "Gigabyte Radeon HD 7970 GHz Edition 3GB Video Card ($449.99)"
  About the GFX card... my HD 5850 was the first one with DX 11 support, no idea it ever was good for anything, but it did not hurt. Two things I would look into: Even though I would have liked to get an ASUS GFX card with ATi chipset, the one I got (1024MB Powercolor Radeon HD5850 PCS+ GDDR5 PCIe 2.1 (MB has 2.0!) 760 MHz) was overclocked by default using copper heat-pipes. So it was probably better cooled than the standard ones. Personally I do not overclock, but if the card comes with a bit of extra speed, why not take it. Though it still got hot, so that I put an extra fan on the top/backside of the board. If there is some tech out there to reduce power consumption and improve cooling I'd now go for that.
  
  Also note the ATi HD XX70 series are usually pretty much the top of the line... and I bet gets really hot. So "best cooling" for the gfx card should be looked into.
• i7 Quadcore
  These are great concerning cooling, since most of the time, i.e. on the Desktop they will clock down and stay really cool using the standard cooler provided with it. Personally I did not go for an extreme cooler, mainly because the standard Intel fan/cooler lets me snap it on the CPU without much hassle of having to smear around with cooling paste. The cooler had the paste already attached.
• Power Supply: Corsair (had 650 HX)
  These Corsair power supplies are pretty much the best. Though I did have issues with them after a year, my system would not power up any longer. The 650 Watt was fried apparently and when I got a replacement it only survived turning it on/off for 5-6 times, and then died. I then got a 850 Watt one, and have had no problems ever since (keeping fingers crossed). In theory my 650 Watt one should have worked without a problem, but it is always a good idea to get the next more powerful power supply, just to give you that extra edge and "security" power-wise. The huge plus of the Corsair is their modular cabling system. You only attach the power cables you need for the mainboard and gfx card and HDD/SSD/DVD and not one more. This way I was able to really build a meticulously clean tower layout.

I started a thread on my PC back then with some screenshots... also shows what is possible with the right tower using only SATA cables: AEon needs a new PC

It is a bit of bitch to put the PC together, but with a bit of planning I did pretty much get everything I needed the first time, all the cables etc. IIRC it took 1-2 days to get it put together (just rechecked, apparently I put it together in 8 hours).

If you have a store that will put it together for you, you could un-stress yourself. I did it myself because I wanted to save money, thus ordered everything online. But with Obsidian's suggestion you would have $1000 to spare, so you might as well indulge in a bit of luxury.

On the topic of noise. There is a company out there that builds PCs for you that are completely passively cooled, and thus pretty much silent. Sure they cost more but this is something I would look into since you have the extra cash. My present PC is not really quiet, I placed it in another room using 15 meter long cables let me sit in a totally quiet room. I very much recommend getting the darn noisy PC out of your working room to let you work in quiet. Long cables are a bit tricky, but I could give you some pointers on this if you are interested.

On 16 GB of RAM... I am still not sure why one would need more than 6 GB... though for a few games, e.g. Rage the 6 GB might have been one of the limits. But your 16 GB cost less than my 6 GB... so heck with it .

On HDD I personally prefer to get two smaller instead of one bigger HDD. Back then 1 TB was just available. But I got 2x500GB. In your case I would go for 2 x 1TB just to be on the safe side that not all your data goes down the drain with that one drive. The larger the drive the more IMO on edge they are. Though I recently got a external 3 TB one for the SatReceiver... ironically only 2 TB were accessible via SatReceiver... sigh.

[kaustic]

My personal opinion ,If your going to buy an entire prebuilt computer stay away from HP, Compac , Gateway , Dell. They're all petty much the same, Crap. They all are the same when it comes to tech support and driver updates, its Crap. And most importantly they are all Crap . Alienware is just a more expensive Dell and as with any Dell its Crap. So with that being said You could probably find something here http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductLi ... =iBUYPOWER that's fairly close to what's been recommended in above posts and still not be any of the Crap I mentioned above.

Edit: I would also mention that when and or if you decide you would like to update your PC, The above mentioned manufactures have all of their components made for them to their specs. Buying memory and vid card upgrades are hit and miss when it comes to compatibility issues.

[obsidian]

The larger the drive the more IMO on edge they are.

I disagree with "the larger drive, the more prone to failure" statement. Hard drives are expected to go as a matter of fact, and there is absolutely no indication that capacity of the drive has anything to do with reliability. You are correct however on the concept of redundancy. It is important to have backups of your data on another drive, system or even off site. A 2-3TB drive is right now the best ratio of capacity and performance per dollar. Ultimately, I wouldn't back up data onto the same computer, what happens if something happens to that system and both drives are corrupted, damaged or lost?

Personally, I have automated backups from all my computers to a NAS (Network Attached Storage). Documents I am currently working on are synced between computers using Dropbox, which ensures that I have the same data on multiple computers with an online copy as well. For really important documents and family photos I have two drives of the same capacity, one I keep locally to back up on to, the other at my brother's place which I will swap out periodically with the local drive. Worst case scenario and my house catches on fire, I'll have a fairly recent backup off site. Some might call that a little excessive, but a lot of data that we have in our lives are irreplaceable and it's better to set up contingencies now than to try and figure out what to do when your drive hits a brick wall.



Also, on any pre-built computer I have come across (normal consumer computers by major manufacturers and those built by local shops - certain specialty companies like iBuyPower might be a little better), I have found that most will find rather creative ways to cut corners. Sure the specs might look good at first, but there is hardware in your computer that aren't listed in specs. PSUs for example, are rarely mentioned and I've seen all sorts of high spec computers with cheap PSUs that are overloaded and prone to blow.

[dONKEY]

Thanks for all the advice.
Singapore is an odd place for buying stuff, I decided to go for a pre-built machine in the end. The chances of being ripped off by china made knock offs is extremely high here, and my poor grasp of chinese doesn't help.
Any way I spent just some where around s$1500. I am saddled with win 8, but have a machine running with a I7-3770 CPU, 8gb RAM and an Nvidia GTX 660.
It seems pretty good so far, although I have yet to finish downloading from Steam, reinstalling applications and locating drivers.

[obsidian]

Does it have an SSD? If not, it would be a worthwhile upgrade. You can clone the current drive over or create a USB recovery disc from Windows 8 (just type "recovery" in the Windows 8 start menu, it should be listed as "create a recovery drive" or something). You should probably create a recovery drive just in case anyway.

Enjoy your new toy!

[AEon]

The spontaneous finished-PC-buy is a bit of a let down I have to admit. There needs to be more *struggle*, and *grief* and *angst* when getting one . Was looking forward to more edifying comments all around

Hope your PC has a good PSU, motherboard, quality RAM, quality cables, HDDs, DVD burner, tower and fans. Because even though the CPU, RAM amount, and graphics card may look "good" on paper, these are not the only components of relevance for an all-round quality PC.

Wishing your PC the best though.

But we all may be in luck nowadays. About 10 years ago (Pentium 4, 2.55 GHz, WinXP) you still needed to pretty much get everything on edge, just to have a decent working PC. The i7 Quad generation (about 3 years ago, with Win7) finally seems to have broken the ground so that even with a mediocre (affordable) PC you would still be in the green for almost everything, except maybe the most resource-hungry games.

[MKJ]

I need to get myself a medium core gaming laptop. Got rid of my desktop not too long ago cos using the Mac laptop was so much easier.
Can game through Wine well enough but that's not too efficient.
This thread helps.

[dONKEY]

Aeon, I didn't mean to cut the discussion dead. This thread has been very insightful.
Asia is a lot different to Europe or the US though. It is very very hard to buy electronic goods outside of a main dealership. Fake electronic parts is a very widespread problem.