Robert Thurman

[mrd]

Americans, heard of this guy or his recent video? I'm not American and so I was unaware of this so-called "Norquist Oath" that he purports that a lot of congress-folk are swearing, but it seems rather startling to me. They're pledging fealty, above their oath to office and the constitution, to a group who utterly opposes raising taxes for any reason, and who is doing so for the sole purpose of starving the gov't so they can subdue it.

Well written article about it:

http://www.addictinginfo.org/2012/12/03 ... ral-video/

Video: (dno the tag for embedding)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8fl0LklQvQI

“95% of the congressmen and Republican senators have sworn a written oath to someone called Grover Norquist and an organization called American For Tax Reform; that they will under no circumstances, and for no reason, raise taxes of any kind on anyone. And therefore they have taken an oath to an outside organization which is not supported by the U.S. Constitution – which gives Congress the right to levy taxes, to do the work of the people through the government –but this is a non governmental organization, not elected by anybody and supported by big money people who are making money by not having to pay taxes.

“And these people have signed a sworn oath that contradicts their oath of office. And therefore, in fact, they do have mental reservations, and they do have purpose of evasion and they are not sincerely taking their oath of office. And if they persist in that, and if they are held to that by this outside person who is not a member of the government, then they are, in fact, breaking their oath of office and they are not serving what they swore to serve the American people.”

He says he wants to start a meme, to raise awareness, I figure I can help my American bros out by at least making them aware of this. Do with it what you will!

[Transient]

[Don Carlos]

Sounds like shit to me

[seremtan]

hey OP, wanna buy a bridge?

[mrd]

You guys are useless.

How much for that bridge?

[GONNAFISTYA]

Norquist was also involved in the K-Street project as well.

I've never understood that type of person. If you truly don't care about government then why would you want to be involved in it? And if the answer is "to destroy it" then I ask again if you don't care then why become involved? To ruin it for everyone else?

[seremtan]

i have a theory that extreme small government tea party types are actually communist agent provocateurs

i mean, think about: if you want to bring about the demise of capitalism, you wouldn't bother with the standard liberal position of 'capitalism with a human face' (public welfare and healthcare, regulation of business, ethical shopping, sustainability, fair trade, corporate social responsibility blah blah blah) because pursuing those policies actually reinforces capitalism by artificially ameliorating its destructive tendencies. instead, you would advocate the most extreme free market positions you could: 100% private healthcare, soup kitchens and charity hospitals for the poor, virtually nil regulation of business, remove all environmental protection, constant warfare with an enemy manufactured by the politico-media nexus, etc. result: total collapse of the middle class, impoverishment of the majority, nation bled dry by a voracious military-industrial complex, followed by revolution as the 99% drag the plutocrats out of their upstate mansions and hang them from lampposts, then replace the status quo with.. communism!

=

[GONNAFISTYA]

lol not a bad theory.

However, like economic theory and game theory, much of your idea is based on not taking into account the possibility of the participants being outright psychopaths. So if the people you've posted pictures of are confirmed sane, then I'd think you were really on to something.

It's possible that our current predicament is due to the actions of a few agent provocateurs, but my belief is simply that humanity hasn't fully come to grips with the damage psychos can do and certainly has not accepted the fact that most of the world's power is held by them. We think of psyhopaths as the bullies on the street or the crazies we see in the movies but most psychos aren't like that. Most of them have hidden themselves in plain view and know how to act "normal" when they need to. We as a species are ruled by psychos and their whims (you are 7 times more likely to find psychopaths in top positions in corporations or governments than in the general public) and until we accept that we can't begin to fix it. At least, that's my theory.

Also, another point of my theory: right-wing politics is the ideology or "party" of the psychopath. I'm not saying all conservatives or right-wing people are psychopaths, but I am saying all psychopaths are conservatives or right-wing. Again...that's my theory.

[Ryoki]

Hmm, I'll agree with that in principle, but only because modern right wingers are far more authoritarian and far less rational than modern lefty types. Hardcore communism might be gone from every country save North Korea, but you can be sure it attracted it's fair share of psychopaths in it's heyday. As a rule, it's simply that positions of extreme power attract these people, whether in government or business or otherwise. In the dark ages they would have flocked to the king or the church.

[GONNAFISTYA]

As a rule, it's simply that positions of extreme power attract these people, whether in government or business or otherwise.

Agreed, but let's be honest....one political ideology has extreme self-interest at it's core, which also attracts these people. With their manipulative, mean-spirited nature and overall lack of empathy for the suffering of others, I believe these to be clear indicators of their personality type. I mean...when you vote down a law to help people in wheelchairs for political gain there's a fucking screw loose your head. I think I've mentioned this before but I have yet to ever hear about a psychopath being a bleeding-heart liberal...it's just not in their nature. I'm not an expert, but the similarities are too numerous to ignore.

And I hate to say it, but I think our predicament will just get worse because corporations are considered "people" and those "corporate citizens" are indeed psychopaths by their very nature. And yes...they are our rulers to a large degree.

[Deathshroud]

You have a point, it seems that portions of the public that are attracted to sensationalized media and political figures that lean far to one side, are either megalomaniacs themselves or are ignorant/careless of the megalomaniac ideals that are endlessly pontificated through these media outlets.

Also, a large portion of the country lacks critical thinking skills and forms their opinions based on completely shallow party "philosophies." These people bark the loudest and waste everyone's time in congress.

[mrd]

And I hate to say it, but I think our predicament will just get worse because corporations are considered "people" and those "corporate citizens" are indeed psychopaths by their very nature. And yes...they are our rulers to a large degree.

Aye, have to agree here. The degree to which they hold hostage so many is sickening. Being someone who watches no TV, listens to no radio, watches very few movies, I'm frequently reminded of its pervasiveness. Obviously there is more to it than media conglomerates, but that is a large percentage of it. Even the video game industry, as I'm sure we all know, has been infected lately. The other day I was talking with a buddy and he was rambling on about how great CoD was and I had nothing to say to him. I knew damn well he was what I'd call a 'console-generation gamer', someone who has never played a game on a computer, someone who likely hasn't the faintest inkling of where his treasured game even came from.

I'd say the scariest corporations are ones like Monsanto, who are threatening the basic means of survival for humans as a species, the free cultivation of food as a basic human right. When you start to dig into their dirty stinking shit, their greed-soaked habits, their utter lack of regard for anything, watching their beady little eyes flit from target to target, it's hard not to want to vomit. I speak with conviction when I say that I think companies like Monsanto need to be dismantled completely until they are but a painful memory, words uttered with disdain and regret.

The mechanics of giant corporations like this are almost too big to understand. There are so many people working at so many levels within it doing such varied tasks, I'm sure that not even the highest of the high can truly understand the level of corruption they are causing. It's just like a machine, slowly lumbering forward. In much the same way that our individual cells can't know what the body is doing as a whole, neither do the peons (whether that means the CEO, or a marketer) of a mega-corporation know where the group as a whole can be headed.