This guy beat Abu Hamza in the Edenbridge bonfire celebratio

[losCHUNK]

:]

Same goes for Saville too, the paedo could'nt get away with the shit he did if it wasn't for certain people ignoring rumours or overlooking certain actions, I said when the news 1st broke that it's either not true or half the BBC need to be locked up and I still feel that way :/. I heard a women giving her testimony when she was working for the BBC and she used to say to the kids 'keep your head down because Savilles around', why the fuck wasn't she questioned ?, atleast for being an accessory to the action !?, same goes for the camera men / advisers or whatever dismissing complaints because he was a star, ignoring the frequency that it was happening, even the police did'nt do their job and they need an investigation, then the BBC paying tribute to him after his death and ignoring shit like the panorama report ?. A lot of people fucked up in epic proportions by not picking on it and need to answer for it, as we did'nt find out about any of it until after his death, giving him plenty of time to dish out sweets from the back of his van in an apparently obvious way on a frequent basis.

[seremtan]

well presumably because there's a difference between 'hearing the rumours' (which everyone had by the sounds of it) and actually having evidence

don't forget this country still has retarded libel laws from feudal times. chances are if someone said something publicly, they'd have their ass lawsuited and bankrupted into next century

[losCHUNK]

Nah I get that, and I don't necessarily mean going to the papers, but this wasn't just rumour, I mean these people can't some out and say they knew about it then still hold a level of respect ?, with BBC and the police both dismissing multiple claims that ended up being truthful ?.

[GONNAFISTYA]

Omerta?

[losCHUNK]

I'm not entirely sure that applies, it's new to me, but the BBC would of needed the support from the authorities and have offered full compliance. A conspiracy theorist would say that the BBC, being the governments right hand man (especially in the 80s with Thatcher), would be trying to cover up allegations with the full support of officials so not to sully its good name.

[seremtan]

or maybe because savile was so popular, everyone was waiting for someone else to stick their neck out and say something, but no one did

[losCHUNK]

This was reported at the time, to both the police and BBC, being reported by third parties like the NHS n all, children in need stopped him going on the show because of the allegations and his actions on the previous years episode. Obviously these people thought they were the only ones, or it was a 'one off', but both those authorities had an eagle eye view of these allegations and if children in need managed to figure it out in 1 episode, then why not the BBC during his lifetime ?, with the panorama report being thrown in their face and then having it quietly pushed aside, leaving ITV to steal the thunder.

The reason they didn't go to the papers was those libel laws, being firmly enforced as the people have already had their complaint dismissed, giving a perfect example of how fucked that law truely is.

[Eraser]

With that said, if it was that easy you'd think it'd be a problem in every sport ? (Football, Rugby etc) but you barely hear stories about performance enhancing drugs surrounding the players lives in those sports ?.

It does exist in those sports as well, but you're not going to win a football or rugby match with performance enhancing drugs. It's about tactics, insight and team play as well. Having a better stamina is only a small part of it.

[losCHUNK]

Aye, but for a footballer to be at the top of his game he wouldn't need performance enhancing drugs unlike in cycling, which is what's suggested in this thread ?, about the winners all being on drugs so he's still the winner ?. You can argue that in footy you need a tactical mind to be a success I guess, but when you consider the amount of football players as opposed to cyclists and the amount of banning for the use of performance enhancing drugs (there's been 1 case in England since 1990), with ex athletes making no mention or journos making comments about how it's a problem ?, I think it can be considered a bit of a non issue ?, the biggest problem they seem to have is getting away from drugs tests that pick up on recreational drugs n all, with players being forced to pay back millions in fees to the club if they fail. I just remembered that Lance used to replace the majority of the blood in his body through transfusions to get around blood tests too

How about Tennis ?, any doping scandals ?, Rugby / Cricket I would guess hasn't enough money running into the sport.

[Nightshade]

Why anyone would give a fuck in the slightest about whether any athlete did or didn't use performance enhancing drugs is beyond me. The fact that the US congress held hearing to investigate steroid use in baseball makes me want to puke. If you play with balls (or ride a bike) for a living, nothing about you matters in the long run. You contribute entertainment and diversion, that's it.

Before anyone jumps down my throat about how I'm an F1 fan, let me say this: If Schumacher, Massa, Rosberg, or any of them were to be investigated for steroids or whatever and found to have used them, the sum total of my response would be "huh, that's kind of a dick move", and I'd get on with my life. Why? Because they drive around in over-powered go-karts for a living. Not that important to the universe.

[losCHUNK]

Well I couldn't give a shit but we're talking about in the context of the sport and its image, there's plenty worse going on but if your'e enthusiastic about something (like a sport) you'd wanna look after it, by keeping the athletes level as equals, portraying a clean image where steroid abuse is not common practice, by not endorsing cheating etc, otherwise the sport just becomes shit and unpopular through mistrust, like running did before Usain Bolt turned up.

I would say it's rather different in F1 n all, as even though the drivers need to be pretty fit, the fitness wouldn't give them as much a competitive edge as in other sports I would imagine, and in that sport i'd probably have the same reaction as you, same way I look at footballers for recreational use.

I could spend all day giving a shit about atrocities across the globe but I'd rather keep it simple

[Nightshade]

I understand, but my point is that there IS a context of sport and image to have this discussion, period.

STOP GIVING A FUCK ABOUT PEOPLE THAT PLAY WITH BALLS FOR A LIVING.

[losCHUNK]

I think i'll do some recycling

This argument kinda gets me, saying basically "ahh there's worse things that can happen". Well Aye, no shit ?, can say that about anything - Got HIV ?, it aint AIDS !. I mean I whacked my toe earlier, really on the bottom of things to get pissed off about, but I feel I have a right to be cos it fucking hurt, I'm not gonna drop that and put my pain on hold cos some niglet in Africa walks 10 miles every day for dirty water despite Ray Mears having a thousand shows on how to purify piss using a dead snake and shoe lace.

[HM-PuFFNSTuFF]

I understand, but my point is that there IS a context of sport and image to have this discussion, period.

STOP GIVING A FUCK ABOUT PEOPLE THAT PLAY WITH BALLS FOR A LIVING.

People wouldn't be so upset but these are contests involving big $. That's why it's a big deal imo.

To expand a little, I'm thinking of gambling, sport's franchise's and purses.

[Nightshade]

I know, so's the Super Bowl, the World Series, and the NBA championship. The core of my viewpoint is that these event should pay the athletes in the dozens of dollars, not tens/hundreds of millions. The fact that these people are paid so much money, and therefore people get so upset when rules are broken, is indicative of how superficial and misguided our society is these days. Hence my previous statements.

[losCHUNK]

I know, so's the Super Bowl, the World Series, and the NBA championship. The core of my viewpoint is that these event should pay the athletes in the dozens of dollars, not tens/hundreds of millions. The fact that these people are paid so much money, and therefore people get so upset when rules are broken, is indicative of how superficial and misguided our society is these days. Hence my previous statements.

F1 is one of the worst for that :L, and i'd rather see the money go to the players than greedy corporations, when a sport gathers that much of a following there's no real way of avoiding it. Those players that are earning the big bucks are the players that are at the peak of the sport n all, it'll be like the worlds best in their respective field, it's only a small proportion when compared to the other athletes that take part in the sport.

I guess when someone turns out to be a cheat who you have been a follower / fan of, it's like being fucked in the arse, particularly if you've paid money to watch a game/race or whatever, not gonna applaud that shit and want it stamped out - he earns good money to be respectable . Mel Gibson dumped his reputation in the swamp after people found out he was a jew hating womeniser, Flavio got disgraced and booted from F1 (kinda) for being a cheat, none should be allowed to continue their career without that hanging over their heads and people should'nt forget either.

It's not their fault they take part in a sport that has a huge following, if anything blame the greedy corporations like Sky n shit, because like everyone else I think money ruins any sport.

[HM-PuFFNSTuFF]

The core of my viewpoint is that these event should pay the athletes in the dozens of dollars, not tens/hundreds of millions.

Completely agree with this and as you might imagine I think a lot of people should not be paid crazy sums of money.

[losCHUNK]

You only have to look at Italian football to see what happens when cheating / corruption becomes common place n all, they went from the worlds best league in the 90s to competing with Russia, fans don't and won't put up with it for good reason . On the flipside, the german league having a closer relationship to the fans, lower wages / lower ticket prices, a fairer revenue system, has placed itself to becoming the worlds next best league

[Plan B]

I say just allow any and all doping/bodily alterations in every sport.
That's what televised sport is about anyway; to see to what extremes the human body can perform.
Hell yeah I'd like to watch a basketball game where doped up cyborgs beat the shit out of eachother.
Maybe it started out as such, but sports have become entertainment, not some biological experiment.

[Ryoki]

I'm all for a Tour de doping, with teams divided by type of drug. We could have team alcohol, team heroin, team amphetamine and team LSD duking it out in the Alpes, it'll be top notch entertainment.

[Plan B]

Right? Now that would be something to watch.
(My money's on team speed.)

[Ryoki]

I don't know, team speed often has a great start but when they take a wrong turn they just keep going.

[Plan B]

Just need to add some shroom to steer them right again