1950's Canadian Fighter Jet > F-35

[obsidian]

The F-35 is a bit of a shit plane, crippled by politics between joint development countries, and branches of the army who wanted it built to everyone's completely contrasting specifications. It's an overly expensive toy plane that doesn't excel at anything... but shittier than a plane designed in the 1950's?

Documents revealed that Canada had considered a revival of the famed Avro Arrow fighter jet program as an alternative to the F-35's, but was shot down by Harper's Conservatives, who wanted to touch dicks with the U.S. and other countries in ordering the super expensive planes with our tax dollars when we could have built something better for cheaper, from scratch. Quite a number of lies were tossed around to shovel this deal though, until it was suspended by the Auditor General on the grounds that the government had been misleading the actual development costs of the F-35's.

The Arrow was an advanced, all-weather supersonic interceptor jet that was developed in the 1950s. Several prototypes were built and flight tests were conducted, but the project was abruptly shut down in 1959 and the aircraft never went into production... The Arrow's basic design and platform still exceed any current fighter jet and it is perfect for Canada's needs.

The proposal, which was updated in 2012, suggested the plane could fly 20,000 feet higher than the F-35, soar twice as fast and would cost less.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/story/2 ... arrow.html

[SoM]

yeah, saw it on the tube, good thing Mckenzie is supporting it, but you know it won't go, stupid gov

[GONNAFISTYA]

Wait...so Canada's current fleet of F-18s (which they just spent $6 Billion refurbishing) aren't good enough that Canadians are not only convinced we need new jets but they should be jets designed from a completely different era of war? Just because of nostaglia? Or can someone give me a "practical reason"?

Why is anyone in Canada asking for new jet fighters in the first place when the aircraft are historically the most maintained flying machines humans have ever made?

Seriously...when an 80 year-old fighter plane from WW2 is still flying in mint condition, and Canada's ENTIRE FUCKING AERIAL FLEET is CONTINUALLY kept in MINT FUCKING CONDITION why do you two morons think Canada has a jet fighter problem and should get in the business of war?

Jesus christ... "The F-35 is too expensive so let's get something cheaper"
Why do we even need to by more at all?

[Captain]

BECAUSE THE CANADIAN WAY OF LIFE IS THREATENED BY THE AXIS OF EVIL AND THE MIDDLE EAST IS A BREEDING GROUND FOR TERRORISTS WHO HATE FREEDOM AND THE GREAT WESTERN WAY OF LIFE

[GONNAFISTYA]

BECAUSE THE CANADIAN WAY OF LIFE IS THREATENED BY THE AXIS OF EVIL AND THE MIDDLE EAST IS A BREEDING GROUND FOR TERRORISTS WHO HATE FREEDOM AND THE GREAT WESTERN WAY OF LIFE

Well yeah....that's the Conservative position on Canada's military. No surprise there....

I'm asking why regular Canadians think we need to pile billions of dollars into new jets when we have a billion other things to fix? I had a discussion just the other week with a family member about the long gun registry and she was pissed that the program cost "over a million dollars". She didn't seem too upset about it anymore when I pointed out the hundreds of millions or billions of dollars our government spends on useless crap when the long gun registry actually had benefits.

I see no benefit of buying new fighter jets.

[obsidian]

Thanks for the rant, but I agree that we don't need new fighter jets, I'm not even sure when we actually use the CF-18's that we already have. I think you missed the point I was trying to make.

What's laughable here is that a half-century old plane can potentially outperform the $8090263 billion F-35 that participating nations have been trying to convince their people that we need to buy, not that we need to build Avro Arrows. I don't know of anyone who really believes that we need new planes, or that these U.S. built planes will somehow magically create job growth here in Canada, or that fighter jets will somehow help us safer.

That said, the Avro Arrow was a pretty amazing piece of engineering and was well before it's time.

[Captain]

$8090263 billion F-35

Engine sold separately.

[GONNAFISTYA]

Thanks for the rant, but I agree that we don't need new fighter jets, I'm not even sure when we actually use the CF-18's that we already have. I think you missed the point I was trying to make.

Yep...I guess I did.

Sorry...I took your posts as somehow supporting Canada getting new jets if they were the Avro Arrow.

[Ryoki]

or that these U.S. built planes will somehow magically create job growth here in Canada

They use that argument over there as well do they?
It's hilarious really, the numbers don't add up at all. According to our ministry of defense the JSF will add a certain number of jobs and so and so much million euros will be pumped into the economy. Except the numbers they're using are based on a maximum amount of aircraft being sold to the participating nations, numbers that are incorrect and have been... since 2008.

The whole thing is like a giant scheme to pump money into the US military industrial complex in return for an unfinished, incredibly overpriced, underdelivering product. Thank god people are waking up to it - there's a solid chance we Dutchies are getting out of the project now, depending on the election results.

Sorry that it makes the shitty thing even more expensive for you guys

[Eraser]

Every time I see Hans Hillen's face on TV I want to smash it with a crowbar.

[Ryoki]

He's the worst minister of defence we've ever had, there is no comparison. The man is utterly incompetent.

Then again, being an absolute fucking moron seems to have been the most important qualification demand for being a minister in this cabinet, he fits right in.

[seremtan]

netherlands will be underwater in 50 years anyway. buy subs

[GONNAFISTYA]

lol just don't buy subs from the brits...Canada learned that lesson the hard way.

[seremtan]

funny, our subs are just fine, and they have nukes on them

guess canadians just can't drive... stick to hockey, eh buddy?