*nerd rage
Re: new rage
Girls, relax, it's just a game.
Re: new rage
What it all boils down to:
To what extent do you want a game to mentally challenge you?
Depends on your mood =>
* feeling a bit numb: "dumb" FPS (what Rage will probably be)
* feeling 4 coffee in the morning: "clever" RPG(/FPS) (what Deus Ex: Human Revolution will probably be)
Nice spreadage, get both, all needs satisfied, thank you very much
To what extent do you want a game to mentally challenge you?
Depends on your mood =>
* feeling a bit numb: "dumb" FPS (what Rage will probably be)
* feeling 4 coffee in the morning: "clever" RPG(/FPS) (what Deus Ex: Human Revolution will probably be)
Nice spreadage, get both, all needs satisfied, thank you very much
Re: new rage
For the haters and the doubters:
It's no Deus Ex, but it's probably going to have a lot more depth than trailers have shown so far.
Oh, and:
"There's even a Guitar Hero-style banjo mini-game called Twitch. "
Win!
source: http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2011- ... e-hands-onWhen RAGE was announced a few years ago, the common consensus was that it was another big, dumb shooter (but this time with cars); another id Software game where the technology was in the driving seat and the game logic and creativity were riding double-barrelled shotgun.
As more cerebral shooters like BioShock and Deus Ex honed into view, those facts turned into worries. Were the Masters of DOOM being left behind?
The closer we get to release, however, the more RAGE - name aside, perhaps - resembles a grown-up id Software game. It's certainly not just a few ideas thrown at a Megatexture in the hope some will stick.
The single-player is big and brash, of course - a run-and-gun set in the aftermath of a Roland Emmerich special effects tornado - but it also boasts an interesting battlefield economy, various ways to customise your approach to combat and an impressive variety of locations and gameplay styles.
It's no Deus Ex, but it's probably going to have a lot more depth than trailers have shown so far.
Oh, and:
"There's even a Guitar Hero-style banjo mini-game called Twitch. "
Win!
Re: new rage
AKA strafe left.... or strafe right!various ways to customise your approach to combat
haha, but seriously, I hope it is decent. All i'm saying is that trailer video didn't show it to be anything more than the usual derp derp id shooter. Like many have mentioned, it's not strictly a bad thing and often this is what people want, but i'm looking forward to see if it offers anything more.
Re: new rage
Uh...no. He's complaining about circle strafing and more circle strafing,
[/quote]
No, I'm not. You just took what I said literally and missed the point entirely. Brisk got it spot on.
[/quote]
No, I'm not. You just took what I said literally and missed the point entirely. Brisk got it spot on.
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Don Carlos
- Posts: 17509
- Joined: Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am
Re: new rage
..Rage preview: Doomed downby Jonathan D Deesing on Apr 20th 2011 6:15PM
57
Despite sporting the enhancements of id Tech 5, Rage seemed to be lagging behind at Bethesda's BFG 2011 media event last week. Its generic, post-apocalyptic wasteland setting has become a familiar one in recent years, but it's the simplistic and overly linear shootfest within that's the most dated element of the game. Nonetheless, the team at id Software seems to be aware that a glossy throwback shooter isn't going to cut it in today's over-saturated FPS market and has challenged itself to set Rage apart.
The most obvious sign of id stepping out of its comfort zone is in the game's multiplayer design. Believe it or not, there's no deathmatch in the classic Doom sense. In its place is a fine-tuned vehicle-based mode, implementing the game's dune buggies. Multiplayer is expected to be a fairly compact experience, with up to six players able to take part in a few gametypes on a sparse offering of five maps. "If you add game variations just to add game variations it confuses people," said one of the designers during the hands-off multiplayer presentation. "People don't know what to play."
Rage (BFG 2011)
The multiplayer ranges from racing around and shooting opponents to more rally point–oriented gametypes that require a delightful amount of strategy. The buggies have a similar look and feel to those in Borderlands. I was disappointed that the only vehicles I saw -- in the presentation and later in my single-player demo -- were equipped with yawn-inspiring machineguns; however, vehicle upgrading will play into the mode, despite id not showing off anything specific at the event.
The flip side to Rage's competitive multiplayer is the cooperative mode, "Legends of the Wasteland," which supports both online and local split-screen play. The co-op is complimentary to the single-player campaign, which is pretty cool from a storyline perspective, even if the two don't actually affect each other. For example, if an NPC in the main game mentions a team going into a town to kill someone, you and a buddy might actually play out that scenario in a co-op mission, in turn providing you with a different perspective on that part of the story. The missions are set up much like those in Modern Warfare 2's "Specs Ops" mode and function as standalone experiences. This lends the mode to quick co-op games but, just like in MW2, you have to complete a mission to unlock the subsequent one.
Of course, the meat of Rage will take place in the single-player campaign, which id describes as "not a short game" by any means. Seeing as how the storied developer created the term deathmatch (!), it's doubly novel in this day and age to see a shooter's multiplayer scaled back to a secondary feature and the focus placed squarely on a really deep single-player experience. But Rage shouldn't be confused for an overly complex, genre-bending FPS.
id has forgone most of the RPG elements found in similar-looking games like Borderlands and Bethesda's own Fallout series. Weapons, gadgets and gear will all be upgradeable to some extent but, as for a character leveling system -- forget about it. While I was initially excited by the prospect of id sticking to its guns (har har) and designing more of a basic FPS, instead of trying to have it all and delivering a complicated mess, I began to have some doubts after playing a bit of the campaign.
"It's an action shooter, not a driving game."
- Jason Kim, sr. producer
The selected levels I played were very linear and seemed to follow the same formula: shoot through some pretty landscapes, buildings, etc, find the boss and dispatch it. This isn't to say this process wasn't entertaining for a few missions, but if this is the format of most of them, I can only imagine the gameplay will get old. The bosses I encountered were nothing more than bullet sponges. I simply circled around them shooting and praying I didn't run out of ammo. While one of them did shoot some blinding goo at me, I didn't find it necessary to come up with a strategy to dodge it and simply just kept firing blindly. Overall, I was unimpressed with the enemy AI. I would often find myself unintentionally sneaking up behind enemies in cover who wouldn't shoot at me (or even turn to look at me, for that matter) even as I stood over them. The AI for the raving ghouls, er "mutants" in the game doesn't perform much better, as all they do is run mindlessly at the player.
I did have fun playing around with some of the gadgets, including the explosive RC car and easily deployable sentry guns. All of them are constructible from miscellaneous parts found lying around the environments. Find enough wheels and gears, and you could create another RC car bomb. Need a lock-picking tool? Keep an eye out for the right bits. These tools are helpful in a fix and blast to use. Even though the RC car can be a bit frustrating to control and is vulnerable to enemy fire, it's still great for surveillance and some wicked funny deaths. The "wingstick," a sort of lethal batarang, is pretty damn fun to use, too, delivering some satisfying kills. Another useful toy is the mechanical spider that crawls aggressively toward enemies, shooting and distracting them, which opens up flanking opportunities for the player.
Most of the weapons I got to use, however, were standard fare. The shotgun, assault rifle and pistol are all what we've come to expect in every FPS since Doom onward. They handled well and sounded great and, of course, killed things, but I'm holding out hope for some more unique weapons in the game. This is, after all, the studio that brought us the BFG 9000.
What did impress me was how slick Rage looks and runs. The entire world is uniquely textured, which means you don't keep seeing the same pile-of-trash asset in every corner of the game. Plus, the refresh rate doesn't struggle from the size or amount of things going on. Even when I had three turrets down, a spider frenzying about and a dozen mutants rushing me, the game performed admirably.
Still, the open-world elements of the gameworld seem limited, and intentionally so -- "exploration is not what defines Rage," explains senior producer Jason Kim. The player visits a city-hub to acquire a mission, and then drives to a location to initiate the (extremely) scripted event. Without an addictive progression system to urge the player onward and into what appeared to be a pretty barren wasteland, this oversimplification of the "open world" shooter seems to be in danger of becoming a series of chores.
Thankfully, there will be a mix of vehicular missions and optional races to give some or even a lot of respite to the straightforward shooting. "You could race in all the races in the wasteland and that would actually take up as much time as it would to move halfway through the campaign," says Kim. But above all, "it's an action shooter, not a driving game," he clarifies. "In part, [the driving] is a means to an end to get from Point A to Point B, but that's not the core of what the game is about."
The narrative backdrop, too, seems just as nonessential. Replace "nuclear apocalypse" with "asteroid strike," and you can easily fill in the missing pieces of the story by borrowing from another game plot. Select people were placed into stasis underground in anticipation of an imminent disaster (sound familiar?), and your character emerges from a damaged Vault -- oops! -- "Ark," only to face the harsh wastelands. He soon encounters small factions of survivors and the technologically superior Enclave, er, "Authority," which pesters any Ark-dweller with persistent dropship attacks.
Of course, a great-playing game can easily overcome a generic setting, but Rage seems to be lacking the creative risks necessary to achieve the standards of greatness in today's competitive market. id Tech 5 is mighty impressive, sure, but I'm still waiting for Rage to "wow" me
57
Despite sporting the enhancements of id Tech 5, Rage seemed to be lagging behind at Bethesda's BFG 2011 media event last week. Its generic, post-apocalyptic wasteland setting has become a familiar one in recent years, but it's the simplistic and overly linear shootfest within that's the most dated element of the game. Nonetheless, the team at id Software seems to be aware that a glossy throwback shooter isn't going to cut it in today's over-saturated FPS market and has challenged itself to set Rage apart.
The most obvious sign of id stepping out of its comfort zone is in the game's multiplayer design. Believe it or not, there's no deathmatch in the classic Doom sense. In its place is a fine-tuned vehicle-based mode, implementing the game's dune buggies. Multiplayer is expected to be a fairly compact experience, with up to six players able to take part in a few gametypes on a sparse offering of five maps. "If you add game variations just to add game variations it confuses people," said one of the designers during the hands-off multiplayer presentation. "People don't know what to play."
Rage (BFG 2011)
The multiplayer ranges from racing around and shooting opponents to more rally point–oriented gametypes that require a delightful amount of strategy. The buggies have a similar look and feel to those in Borderlands. I was disappointed that the only vehicles I saw -- in the presentation and later in my single-player demo -- were equipped with yawn-inspiring machineguns; however, vehicle upgrading will play into the mode, despite id not showing off anything specific at the event.
The flip side to Rage's competitive multiplayer is the cooperative mode, "Legends of the Wasteland," which supports both online and local split-screen play. The co-op is complimentary to the single-player campaign, which is pretty cool from a storyline perspective, even if the two don't actually affect each other. For example, if an NPC in the main game mentions a team going into a town to kill someone, you and a buddy might actually play out that scenario in a co-op mission, in turn providing you with a different perspective on that part of the story. The missions are set up much like those in Modern Warfare 2's "Specs Ops" mode and function as standalone experiences. This lends the mode to quick co-op games but, just like in MW2, you have to complete a mission to unlock the subsequent one.
Of course, the meat of Rage will take place in the single-player campaign, which id describes as "not a short game" by any means. Seeing as how the storied developer created the term deathmatch (!), it's doubly novel in this day and age to see a shooter's multiplayer scaled back to a secondary feature and the focus placed squarely on a really deep single-player experience. But Rage shouldn't be confused for an overly complex, genre-bending FPS.
id has forgone most of the RPG elements found in similar-looking games like Borderlands and Bethesda's own Fallout series. Weapons, gadgets and gear will all be upgradeable to some extent but, as for a character leveling system -- forget about it. While I was initially excited by the prospect of id sticking to its guns (har har) and designing more of a basic FPS, instead of trying to have it all and delivering a complicated mess, I began to have some doubts after playing a bit of the campaign.
"It's an action shooter, not a driving game."
- Jason Kim, sr. producer
The selected levels I played were very linear and seemed to follow the same formula: shoot through some pretty landscapes, buildings, etc, find the boss and dispatch it. This isn't to say this process wasn't entertaining for a few missions, but if this is the format of most of them, I can only imagine the gameplay will get old. The bosses I encountered were nothing more than bullet sponges. I simply circled around them shooting and praying I didn't run out of ammo. While one of them did shoot some blinding goo at me, I didn't find it necessary to come up with a strategy to dodge it and simply just kept firing blindly. Overall, I was unimpressed with the enemy AI. I would often find myself unintentionally sneaking up behind enemies in cover who wouldn't shoot at me (or even turn to look at me, for that matter) even as I stood over them. The AI for the raving ghouls, er "mutants" in the game doesn't perform much better, as all they do is run mindlessly at the player.
I did have fun playing around with some of the gadgets, including the explosive RC car and easily deployable sentry guns. All of them are constructible from miscellaneous parts found lying around the environments. Find enough wheels and gears, and you could create another RC car bomb. Need a lock-picking tool? Keep an eye out for the right bits. These tools are helpful in a fix and blast to use. Even though the RC car can be a bit frustrating to control and is vulnerable to enemy fire, it's still great for surveillance and some wicked funny deaths. The "wingstick," a sort of lethal batarang, is pretty damn fun to use, too, delivering some satisfying kills. Another useful toy is the mechanical spider that crawls aggressively toward enemies, shooting and distracting them, which opens up flanking opportunities for the player.
Most of the weapons I got to use, however, were standard fare. The shotgun, assault rifle and pistol are all what we've come to expect in every FPS since Doom onward. They handled well and sounded great and, of course, killed things, but I'm holding out hope for some more unique weapons in the game. This is, after all, the studio that brought us the BFG 9000.
What did impress me was how slick Rage looks and runs. The entire world is uniquely textured, which means you don't keep seeing the same pile-of-trash asset in every corner of the game. Plus, the refresh rate doesn't struggle from the size or amount of things going on. Even when I had three turrets down, a spider frenzying about and a dozen mutants rushing me, the game performed admirably.
Still, the open-world elements of the gameworld seem limited, and intentionally so -- "exploration is not what defines Rage," explains senior producer Jason Kim. The player visits a city-hub to acquire a mission, and then drives to a location to initiate the (extremely) scripted event. Without an addictive progression system to urge the player onward and into what appeared to be a pretty barren wasteland, this oversimplification of the "open world" shooter seems to be in danger of becoming a series of chores.
Thankfully, there will be a mix of vehicular missions and optional races to give some or even a lot of respite to the straightforward shooting. "You could race in all the races in the wasteland and that would actually take up as much time as it would to move halfway through the campaign," says Kim. But above all, "it's an action shooter, not a driving game," he clarifies. "In part, [the driving] is a means to an end to get from Point A to Point B, but that's not the core of what the game is about."
The narrative backdrop, too, seems just as nonessential. Replace "nuclear apocalypse" with "asteroid strike," and you can easily fill in the missing pieces of the story by borrowing from another game plot. Select people were placed into stasis underground in anticipation of an imminent disaster (sound familiar?), and your character emerges from a damaged Vault -- oops! -- "Ark," only to face the harsh wastelands. He soon encounters small factions of survivors and the technologically superior Enclave, er, "Authority," which pesters any Ark-dweller with persistent dropship attacks.
Of course, a great-playing game can easily overcome a generic setting, but Rage seems to be lacking the creative risks necessary to achieve the standards of greatness in today's competitive market. id Tech 5 is mighty impressive, sure, but I'm still waiting for Rage to "wow" me
Re: new rage
Haha jesus christ, this game sounds like it's going to be dull as fuck.
Re: new rage
Very true for Assassin's Creed Brotherhood online, but I think Rage's setting would've been perfect for Halo-type multiplayer combat. I think id dropped the ball on this one."If you add game variations just to add game variations it confuses people," said one of the designers during the hands-off multiplayer presentation. "People don't know what to play."
Bring on Doom 4
Re: new rage
I dunno why so many people are so excited about Doom 4. We know nothing about it except that it's using id Tech 5. If Doom 3 is anything to go by, then for most people there should be no reason to be excited about Doom 4 at all...?Captain Mazda wrote:Bring on Doom 4
Re: new rage
1) It's Doom
2) It might be a Doom 2 remake
3)
2) It might be a Doom 2 remake
3)
Re: new rage
Oh look, that preview pretty much regurgitated everything I said in this thread. Great article
Re: new rage
My favourite part of the article was the bit that confirmed everyone's fears almost to the letter.
Re: new rage
lol yep. Except Q3W is one step ahead of these fools...
Re: new rage
So what you're saying is, you want all your games to pretend to be RPGs, but you don't want to play an actual RPG because those are for fucking nerds?
The action FPS market is dominated by 8 hour military campaigns and scripted AI teammates where all the combat takes place hiding like a little girl behind cover. I'm excited for a return to the old run-and-gun with nothing getting between me and the action. I think what is interesting about all these previews and opinions is that people keep saying "yea, I'm sure it will be fun and look amazing but it doesn't have XYZ". I think if a game can avoid having the cliche XYZ and still be entertaining, it did something right.
The action FPS market is dominated by 8 hour military campaigns and scripted AI teammates where all the combat takes place hiding like a little girl behind cover. I'm excited for a return to the old run-and-gun with nothing getting between me and the action. I think what is interesting about all these previews and opinions is that people keep saying "yea, I'm sure it will be fun and look amazing but it doesn't have XYZ". I think if a game can avoid having the cliche XYZ and still be entertaining, it did something right.
Re: new rage
Hmm, what about the run-and-gun cliche that completely contradicts everything you just posted?
You're saying it'll be fun because it's dispensing with modern cliches and replacing the entire game with the biggest one of all.
You're saying it'll be fun because it's dispensing with modern cliches and replacing the entire game with the biggest one of all.
Re: new rage
I like that there's a hard core of stubborn people who're pretending how refreshing and nouveaux it is to just have a game where you don't have to think, as if all current FPS games require a masters in neuroscience to play.
Re: new rage
You're so stuck up in your self-righteousness, aren't you?Yeahso wrote:I like that there's a hard core of stubborn people who're pretending how refreshing and nouveaux it is to just have a game where you don't have to think, as if all current FPS games require a masters in neuroscience to play.
It's not refreshing or "nouveaux", it's just that the "run-and-gun" type of gameplay didn't suddenly just become obsolete because games with more complex gameplay exist. If you're bored with that kind of thing, fine, but it doesn't mean Rage will be a bad game. Judge it on it's own merits and don't compare it to Deus Ex, because they are aiming at completely different experiences.
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GONNAFISTYA
- Posts: 13369
- Joined: Sun Jan 23, 2005 8:20 pm
Re: new rage
I like that there's a hard core of stubborn people who're saying they want something new, but as long as it follows a winning formula and offers something additional. They want their games to progress beyond that which has been done before, as long as it has the same features as games they're most fond of. They don't want a game with vehicles, because Halo already did it. Open worlds? GTA did it. Set in a wasteland? Fallout did it. Hallways and interiors? Done to death. Outdoors? Boring! Pressing "Use" to interact with objects in the world? Please. They don't want a game with shotguns, because Doom already did it..even before Deus Ex had them. They want games with weapon mods, like Mass Effect, but they don't want it to have been done before in any game...like Deus Ex...because it's not fresh. They don't want games with circle strafe because it's been done to death, but since circle strafe is a fundamental movement mechanic/tactic, they'll say that people are missing the point, that it has something to do with "substance" that you'll find in Deus Ex or another game of a completely different genre and completely different feature set from the action game that they're complaining about. And by golly they'll feel vindicated if some guy named Jonathan D Deesing has the same complaints about it! It has to be fresh!
But hey, innovation isn't the be all and end all for them.
But hey, innovation isn't the be all and end all for them.
Re: new rage
GFY still assuming theres a black/white scenario where a game is either completely innovative or just a rehash.
That's not what it's about at all. It's about making a fun, enjoyable game, that understands the features that made other games fun, while also putting a unique twist on it, to seperate it from the rest. In fact, you said as much in your first two sentences, before you had a sarcastic meltdown.
I don't want id to make another Deus Ex. I just want them to step outside their safety zone and try something different rather than keep regurgitating the same game every time. That final quote from the preview pretty much explains exactly how I feel:
In other words, it looks like it'll be a typical id shooter (which isn't a bad thing) but the additional driving sections and wasteland setting isn't going to be enough to justify the £30 purchasing in, when I can just play any of the other games from their back catalogue instead and essentially get the same experience.Of course, a great-playing game can easily overcome a generic setting, but Rage seems to be lacking the creative risks necessary to achieve the standards of greatness in today's competitive market. id Tech 5 is mighty impressive, sure, but I'm still waiting for Rage to "wow" me.
Re: new rage
how many times you gonna say the same thing?
Re: new rage
Eh, who said that? Mirrors Edge isn't an RPG, but it managed to be a smart, effective FPS that wasn't at all like an id-style shooter. How would you even define an "actual RPG" anyway? Totally ambiguous and nonsensical statement.bitWISE wrote:So what you're saying is, you want all your games to pretend to be RPGs, but you don't want to play an actual RPG because those are for fucking nerds?
I don't care about genres anyway. If a game is good, it's good. It just so happens that for me, the best kind of games tend to crossover between genres, borrowing the best features of both.
Re: new rage
"Rage"...a fitting title for the reaction it seems to get from obsessive gamers.
Re: new rage
Yeah, i'm starting to sound like a stuck record, though I blame GFY for twisting words and misinterprating everything we've said in here.fKd wrote:how many times you gonna say the same thing?
I'll leave this thread with the same sentiments as when I first posted in it: I ain't buying this shit unless it stop being a dull-looking, generic pile of crap. Moving on!
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GONNAFISTYA
- Posts: 13369
- Joined: Sun Jan 23, 2005 8:20 pm
Re: new rage
I am not twisting words.
You don't seem to realize that I have no horse in this race whatsoever, and I have done nothing beyond making fun of the petty complaints about the game that you and others have made and in particular I'm making fun of the mental gymnastics you guys have been using to justify your opinions when others point out the fucked up logic in your arguments. If your reasons made sense, didn't contradict themselves or didn't seem petty, I wouldn't be mocking you. I am also making fun of people doing the same thing in the Portal 2 thread. And I'm not twisting words there, either.
As a developer, reading the 7 pages of this mindless shit reminds me that there are alot of fickle gamers out there and no matter what we make or offer in terms of features that someone, somewhere will come up with dumb excuses to bash it. You are openly admitting that Rage offers much more than a typical id Software game, yet still cling to your childish approach/excuses to bash it anyways. After several posts of "I want something new" you then comment that innovation isn't really the point, and that somehow I don't get your point.
No shit, Sherlock.
Yes...we get that Rage doesn't interest you as much as other games.
You don't seem to realize that I have no horse in this race whatsoever, and I have done nothing beyond making fun of the petty complaints about the game that you and others have made and in particular I'm making fun of the mental gymnastics you guys have been using to justify your opinions when others point out the fucked up logic in your arguments. If your reasons made sense, didn't contradict themselves or didn't seem petty, I wouldn't be mocking you. I am also making fun of people doing the same thing in the Portal 2 thread. And I'm not twisting words there, either.
Really? Then why spend so much time and effort saying that it is?brisk wrote:...it looks like it'll be a typical id shooter (which isn't a bad thing)
As a developer, reading the 7 pages of this mindless shit reminds me that there are alot of fickle gamers out there and no matter what we make or offer in terms of features that someone, somewhere will come up with dumb excuses to bash it. You are openly admitting that Rage offers much more than a typical id Software game, yet still cling to your childish approach/excuses to bash it anyways. After several posts of "I want something new" you then comment that innovation isn't really the point, and that somehow I don't get your point.
No shit, Sherlock.
Yes...we get that Rage doesn't interest you as much as other games.