Revolt in Egypt

[Ryoki]

Anyone following what's been happening in Egypt the last few days?

It went from minor local protests inspired by what happened in Tunisia to now pretty massive and much more violent clashes between protesters and security forces in a very short time, probably a reaction to the violent kneejerk reaction of the regime to the first. It's not just in Cairo either, the rioting in Alexandria is just as bad and in Suez it's reportedly much worse, with the police being overrun and fleeing.

The western world is not really ready to drop Mubarrak yet, hedging their bets and issuing statements that all sides should calm down like randy. Meanwhile the army is now being sent in, but the protesters are receiving them with cheering and flags and handshakes, so it's the question what side they'll be on.

Methinks that if it keeps up like this Mubarrak and his family will be fleeing to Saudi Arabia in a few days. And if Egypt falls, chances are that similar regimes in neighbouring countries will collapse too. Sort of reminds me of the end of the iron curtain... amazing how quickly these things can happen when people have decided they're fed up with a situation.

You can watch Al Jazeera's live broadcast here: http://english.aljazeera.net/watch_now/

[Ryoki]

Oh and they shut off the entire interweb:

[seremtan]

lol @ western govts "appealing for calm"

just get rid of the fucker

[bam!]

"We dont care about solving the actual cause of the problem, just calm down"

[bitWISE]

If you're American and wondering, the U.S has a lot of skin in the game. Mubarak has received a huge amount of aid from the United States. Egypt is one of the only Middle Eastern countries to have something approaching a lasting peace treaty with Israel, and Mubarak is generally considered to be a 'friend of the West' by the standards of his fellow leaders in the region. Many of the protesters see the U.S as propping up Mubarak's regime. If the revolution succeeds, any popular democracy in Egypt is almost certainly going produce leaders with anti-American platforms. Further, one of the largest opposition groups in Egypt is the Muslim Brotherhood, which is considered a terrorist organization and a supporter of terrorism by the Russian Federation and is typically anti-west in its rhetoric.

[Tsakali]

lol [ enter country name in question ]

[Whiskey 7]

Anyone following what's been happening in Egypt the last few days?
.............

No I hadn't Ryoki, so thanks otherwise I may have missed it.

I did read your post here this morning and heard all about it on the local radio station later, mid morning but only for a few minutes.
Seems quite serious, civil unrest is quite disconcerting anywhere, but here seems explosive.

................ amazing how quickly these things can happen when people have decided they're fed up with a situation..............

And yes, one moment relatively quite then kaboom

[Nightshade]

Not been following it too closely, but I did hear about the total media/internet blackout. Then late last night I saw a breaking news bit on MSNBC about calm being restored as dawn broke, or words to that effect. That's some scary shit. When you know there's just been a "Nope, nothing bad happened, nothing to see here, everything's fine LOOK AT THE MONKEY!" moment on a national scale, it's chilling.

[Ryoki]

As far as i can tell that's not the case at all...

There was a short period of calm as people watched the speech Mubarak gave last night, but when he announced he was going to drop the cabinet and not fuck off himself, people immediately took to the streets again. There appears to be a total disconnect with reality in his mind, that it would be acceptable to rotate his minions and stay in power himself... ridiculous. Mubarak appointed the former intelligence chief as the first vice president in 30 years and put some other relatively popular people in high spots, but it seems the people are rejecting the appointments completely.

In Cairo and other major cities the police have now melted away completely and the army is doing nothing to stop the protesters, who are massively defying the curfew. There's reports of civilians disarming the riot police and stripping them of their armor and making them walk home, torching their armored vehicles and army tanks standing by watching. There's some looting going on as well, but so far not on a large scale. More than 100 people died in various shootings, which only pisses people off even more.

Looks like it's game over for Mubarak

[SoM]

power to the people

[HM-PuFFNSTuFF]

Most likely a fundy Muslim government will follow. Well if there is any sort of democracy it will. I see more aid for Israel coming too.

[seremtan]

i wonder how this is playing in tel aviv? not only could their peace treaty with egypt be up the swannee, but also a new egyptian govt more sympathetic to hamas might open the border with gaza and funnel in a metric fuckton of arms (to go with the metric fuckton that the US will be funnelling into israel if that happens)

shit will get real

[Ryoki]

Most likely a fundy Muslim government will follow. Well if there is any sort of democracy it will. I see more aid for Israel coming too.

Falling for the old 'evil dictator or muslim crazies' line are we puffy? Come on now... a lot of western countries might see the Muslim Brotherhood as a terrorist organization - which btw has everything to do with legitimizing Mubarak's 30 year rule - but the reality is that they're a very far cry from the Taliban. Egypt has a middle class and a lot of technocrats that wield political and economic power, it really won't get that far.

i wonder how this is playing in tel aviv? not only could their peace treaty with egypt be up the swannee, but also a new egyptian govt more sympathetic to hamas might open the border with gaza and funnel in a metric fuckton of arms (to go with the metric fuckton that the US will be funnelling into israel if that happens)

Wouldn't worry about the peace treaty with Israel being in danger either, who'd be insane enough to risk a war with a nuclear armed neighbour? But yes, you'd expect a new government with popular support would certainly do less about guarding the border with Gaza. But the suggestion that they'll immediately start arming the Palestinians if that happens is crazy. Normal trade in everyday goods would render the Israeli economic blockade mostly useless, which will have a far greater political effect than another doomed intifada.

[Therac-25]

[HM-PuFFNSTuFF]

I didn't say anything about terrorists or crazy people. I was simply noting that Egypt has a deeply religious population. Mind you they are largely Sunnis so what will follow if Mubarak is out isn't entirely clear (let alone the prospect of democracy). I do think it's likely whatever follows will have to be less supportive of the West and Israel and that does likely mean more aid for Israel as some to Egypt is displaced. I certainly don't think that's a good thing.

Most likely a fundy Muslim government will follow. Well if there is any sort of democracy it will. I see more aid for Israel coming too.

Falling for the old 'evil dictator or muslim crazies' line are we puffy? Come on now... a lot of western countries might see the Muslim Brotherhood as a terrorist organization - which btw has everything to do with legitimizing Mubarak's 30 year rule - but the reality is that they're a very far cry from the Taliban. Egypt has a middle class and a lot of technocrats that wield political and economic power, it really won't get that far.

i wonder how this is playing in tel aviv? not only could their peace treaty with egypt be up the swannee, but also a new egyptian govt more sympathetic to hamas might open the border with gaza and funnel in a metric fuckton of arms (to go with the metric fuckton that the US will be funnelling into israel if that happens)

Wouldn't worry about the peace treaty with Israel being in danger either, who'd be insane enough to risk a war with a nuclear armed neighbour? But yes, you'd expect a new government with popular support would certainly do less about guarding the border with Gaza. But the suggestion that they'll immediately start arming the Palestinians if that happens is crazy. Normal trade in everyday goods would render the Israeli economic blockade mostly useless, which will have a far greater political effect than another doomed intifada.

[Ryoki]

Oh, i thought with 'fundy' you might mean 'fundamentalist'.

I agree btw, the transition between a totalitarian regime to democracy usually takes at least a decade. But who knows...

[HM-PuFFNSTuFF]

I did.

[EtUL]

I unfolded my local newspaper today and was greeted with the headline "Egypt Under Siege" and I promptly folded it back up.

If they can't use the proper word in a headline I'm scared to see how they're reporting on it. I'll stick to Al-Jazeera.

[seremtan]

you don't get it. egypt is under siege from within

[seremtan]

yakkity-sax

rofl

[EtUL]

you don't get it. egypt is under siege from within

Half of me believes it could be someone's daft rationalization, maybe like what you've said. Other half says it's just a shitty editor tho.

[Ryoki]

Sooooo Mooby has just announced he won't run for another term, which the protesters do not accept as they want him gone pronto. Will be interesting to see what happens the following days, it seems that friday people intend to march on the presidential palace...

[EtUL]

NPR said the end of his term is a month, so I would think it might not be too bad.

From the clips of his speech they were playing they guy is still doing a good job of playing dumb and trying to save face.

[Ryoki]

Had to wiki it, al jazeera mentioned 'months', wiki says the presidential elections aren't until september.

[EtUL]

gg npr...well it was a guy they were interviewing.