dk_ng2_ctf beta

[dONKEY]

//updated image and download

This is a second beta test of my NoGhost comp entry.
[lvlshot]http://www.leveldk.co.uk/dk_ng2/beta2.jpg[/lvlshot]

Download link (about 20mb): CLICKY

//The below comments don't really apply to this beta
So this is a very first beta. I have some known issues:
-r_speeds, don't even go there....but it is playable, my laptop keeps fps above 300.
-jump pads need tweaking, you bump your head jumping up from the central court yard up to the 45 degree corridors towards the base areas.
-jump pads from the catacomb area have triggers that are too big, which means you tend to get stuck a couple of times
-bot clustering is still poor. They tend not to use the catacomb route at all. I will look at this but seeing as it took ages to create a bot file, I'm glad I even got this far!
-weapon and item placement....hmm....I am crap at this...so I really need help and advice.
-Lighting...now for me on my laptop it looks awesome...is it too dark on other monitors? I only have laptops so have never seen it on a monitor.
-Spectators are 'locked' in a clip brush, this is deliberate so they can't get stuck in the areaportals in fly by mode.

Any advice/comments very welcome!
I don't have time for structural changes now, so this is mostly about tweaking stuff.

oh, yes the -fixaas issue if anybody else ever needs it:

I followed Sock's article....but, at least for me I found the -fixaas switch broke the .aas file. So...
-Create your bot only version of the map.
-compile it and create an aas file that does NOT use the -optimize switch
-change the name of the .aas to the same name as your real map
-compile the real map with -fixaas set. DO NOT RUN BSPC.EXE HERE THOUGH
-grab a hex editor. Hexedit is free and easy. Open the renamed aas file and edit the first four entries. -fixaas seems to break these. Change the entry to: 45 41 41 53 then save.
-run bspc.exe on the map (no need to run q3map2) with -reach -optimize set

And that's all folks

[Anthem]

First, I would like to compliment you on the overall atmosphere and construction of the map. I feel it is a much more solid release than your last submission to the NoGhost Competition as the scale is much better.

Here are some of my recommendations:

Clip these at a 45 degree angle on both sides so players don't get stuck on them when they try to get the map:

[lvlshot]http://i787.photobucket.com/albums/yy159/kwsx/Quake%20III%20Mapping%20Feedback/dk_ng2_ctf1.jpg[/lvlshot]

I'm assuming you are going to clip these fences, if not I recommend doing so as these are the primary obstacle in this area of the map:

[lvlshot]http://i787.photobucket.com/albums/yy159/kwsx/Quake%20III%20Mapping%20Feedback/dk_ng2_ctf2.jpg[/lvlshot]

These stair edges are great. However, it may be better if they were clipped from the bottom step to the top step so they are easier to stand on (and are stair-like only in view and not in function):

[lvlshot]http://i787.photobucket.com/albums/yy159/kwsx/Quake%20III%20Mapping%20Feedback/dk_ng2_ctf3.jpg[/lvlshot]

A small nick in the terrain:

[lvlshot]http://i787.photobucket.com/albums/yy159/kwsx/Quake%20III%20Mapping%20Feedback/dk_ng2_ctf4.jpg[/lvlshot]

I feel it is necessary to be able to move between this area (the wall and the tree):

[lvlshot]http://i787.photobucket.com/albums/yy159/kwsx/Quake%20III%20Mapping%20Feedback/dk_ng2_ctf5.jpg[/lvlshot]

The items seems very close together, and I didn't find a mega health or red armor. Also, are you planning on adding a power up to the map?

Again, well done on everything overall. This is an accomplishment of a map.

[cityy]

Yo! I really like the textures and the terrain work you have here. I found the trees being a bit distracting - the leaves still stand out way too much, IMO it should look more like the greenery in sock's POM (color wise). Also these fences look a bit weird to me.

About the layout... First of all the flag should not be in that little room - imagine the fight attacker/defender. If the attacker goes for the flag the defender shoots him into that room and the attacker dies. You should rather have the flag on a lower area - maybe some little pit 24units lower than the rest of the base would be good here. Then I think there could be a high path in the central building in base so you can rocket jump out there. Also not sure about the stairs on both sides of the base; the base doesn't need to be symmetric, just be sure the entrances/exits are balanced.
The mid lacks vertical gameplay, you should lower that building in the center of the mid and have a bridge from GL to GL. Then the GLs could be replaced with SGs and there could be a PU in mid. I'd like to see Regen but w/e.

Didn't think much about item placement yet - I would like to see some more height variation first. =)

[dONKEY]

I think I'm stuck with the flag area. I do agree though about the central area. I have a rope bridge in mind, from GL to GL passageway. The PU in the centre is a great idea.

Tidying clip brushes etc and overall light I can get on to, now I know the level can be finished.

Colour tweaking on the veg can still be done. You think darker still?

[cityy]

Yea I think it stands out far too much as it is now but maybe it's just me. You should look for other opinions on this particular thing.

[obsidian]

• I spawned inside a player clip in the middle area. Had to /noclip to get out.
• Trees are player clipped but not weapon clipped. It seems a bit odd. Especially the big trees.
• You did a lot of clipping in most areas but it's still lacking in other areas and I get snagged on things. I would have clipped closer to the walls in most places with angled clips, but that's more a personal preference.
• Rope bridge would be cool.
• Love the textures.
• Rock walls need a little more tessellation and rougher surface. Holes might benefit from being a little more irregular shaped to look more natural. They look like graves that have been dug out.
• Needs better base colours. If you get turned around it takes a little while to find out which way you are facing.
• I don't like the electrical lamps, they look out of place. Replace with torches or something and make them give off a nice warm orange/yellow hue.
• Little rock pebbles have bad seams. Zoom up and you'll see they have cracks in the surface. It also messes up the lighting on them in parts of the map.
• The green mossy bits on the stairs on the right and left of the flag could be "mossier". Right now, it's a thin equal width strip that looks like someone spray painted green on the edge of the stairs. Make it look like the stairs are covered with moss except for an irregular strip of pathway down the middle.
• I get a weird HoM effect when walking into the right sign in the blue base. I don't like the signs in the first place, they look out of place with the theme. I think some tattered prayer flags or something might work better.
• Needs more vines on the buildings and on the rock in the middle ground where it meets the sky.
• Basement is a little boring and repetitive. Needs some kind of focal point down there like a statue or tomb. Add a bit of colour either with plants or something else.
• Sun angle needs adjustment. The red base has more shadow than the blue base. This isn't fair since it's harder for the red team to see invaders. Rotate the sun angle (or map) 90-degrees and see how that works. You'll have a well lit right side and a shadowed left side. If that doesn't work out for you, adjust the sun angle to be more of a 12-o'clock sun.
• Light leaks along the top in the middle ground, facing the red base.
• Leaf texture of the large trees looks stretched. Also, fine tune the alpha, some of the leaves look like they are floating.

The colour of the palm leaf isn't bad, I think the problem is the shader. First, try using rgbGen vertex instead of exactVertex. Same goes for your other model shaders. You can also try using a back-shader to darken the under faces of the leaf since the top is lit, but the bottom is in shade:

Code: Select all

textures/dk_ng2/palm_leaf
{
	q3map_cloneShader textures/dk_ng2/palm_leaf_back
	surfaceparm alphashadow
	surfaceparm nonsolid
	surfaceparm trans
	qer_alphaFunc gequal 0.5
	{
		map textures/dk_ng2/palm_leaf.tga
		alphaFunc GE128
		depthWrite
		rgbGen Vertex
	}
}

textures/dk_ng2/palm_leaf_back
{
	q3map_invert
	surfaceparm alphashadow
	surfaceparm nonsolid
	surfaceparm trans
	qer_alphaFunc gequal 0.5
	qer_editorImage textures/dk_ng2/palm_leaf.tga
	{
		map textures/dk_ng2/palm_leaf.tga
		alphaFunc GE128
		depthWrite
		rgbGen Vertex
	}
}

[dONKEY]

Hey thanks for feed back.
All good stuff. The shader was very kind of you, thanks.

[v1l3]

That's is an amazing map, very nice.

[fKd]

wooooo downloading

[Anthem]

The tree clips are a bit too big at the top. A player can use them as jumping platforms to cross the center from the top level, thus circumnavigating the central area completely. It would also be nice (and better to spread out weapons and pickups) to add a second level to the bases.

[ShadoW_86]

Hi dONKEY. First of all I love how does this map look, and whole theme of it. You gathered there a lot of great textures, so it's erally a shame that we can't see hafl ot em :/. This map seriously needs lightning up. Tbh, to me it looks right now, like there is no lightning work done, just skybox put over the map, and it lights up part of it. Look at some of my screenshoth, how great differences there are in parts of the map (in lightning). You should really improve this.

Also there is a lot if weird clipping, in dungeons for example theare are big distances between clips and actuall brushes. I think you should look at clipping once more and maybe imrove it also a little bit .

Trees looks very weird, but you already know it, and fixed .

This map is very tight/small. I think it's something like ctf1, but it hasn't big central part where grea part of the fight is going on. This is actually strange, almost all the fighting takes places in bases :/, and central part is just suicidal, it's so tight (and dark), that it's camper paradise. 4v4 game is very hard (especially with bots, who don't really leave the base), but I'm not sure how many ppl is it for. 2v2 gameplay would be much better. I would really like to see some real central area also.

I would really like to see some underground connection between bases. As I mentioned earlier, upper part is just suicidal, there is a need for other path, so fc could actually bring the flag to the base . Please add a corridor in the dungeons, you can alwasy add something, to make it harder to go through there, maybe add pool in the middle or sth.

Brushwork/modelling/terrain/textures etc - marvellous - you rock!

I don't like how guns are placed here. You have LG almost next to RG and then to RL. I think having LG and RG both on this map atm is too much. I would remove one of those guns completely, or in case new underground corridor addition, place one copy for both teams there (so it's 2xLg + 1xRg in overall).

Also I have and idea for central part of the map. is it's not possible to extend it, you could place two portals at the bottom of the central structure leading to its top. You could have there regen, since it's fu#### impossible to enter the base and steal the flag now .

Right now i think that's all I remember. I'll try to test it more and post feedback soon. GL & HF!

[dichtfux]

Hey donkey! I just had a look at your last NG1 map and at this beta.

A lot of things that I noticed when I played the map have already been mentioned so I'll just emphasize those that are most important imo:

• clipping: As someone mentioned too far from the walls in some places, missing in others. Try running from flag to flag as fast as you can (think fast-caps) several times on each route and you'll find the annoying places. I got stuck on many things and it should not happen on CTF maps imo, even if you don't know the perfect way to navigate the map yet.
• tight areas: I think some areas may be a bit tight and/or the corners to sharp. (Lower level and the part you have to cross to to get from base into mid.) The tree at mid that was already mentioned is annoying imo.
• fences feel strange the way they are and clipping them would make things worse imo. I'd remove them.

The map looks good but the color of both the rocks and the stones of the temple thingie is gray and it feels a bit too gray for me. Maybe you could change the rock color a bit? Dunno, just an idea. I also agree on what has been said on the lamps on the lower level, torches would feel better to me.

Greetings,

[dONKEY]

Thanks for helping guys.
Been really busy at work this last week, but getting back into the map now.
Obsidian, that shader is brilliant. The trees look great. I've come up with a different branch texture for the big tree and am pretty happy with it now.
The centre area has a new rope bridge, and the rest of the issues I'm slowly getting to.
Slightly off topic....The other stupid thing that stopped me last week was my website hosting company. I had exceeded my data storage limit and they emailed to ask me to remove some data. That was cool, but they had locked my site index preventing me from doing anything. Some kind of weird logic.

[Anthem]

I had both this topic and kazdm5 open, so I accidentally posted this in the wrong topic. lol Sorry!

I posted some feedback! I hope it helps.

http://maverickservers.com/forums/viewt ... 200#p18200

[dONKEY]

Beta 2 is ready (updated first post):
[lvlshot]http://www.leveldk.co.uk/dk_ng2/beta2.jpg[/lvlshot]

Download Link HERE

Change log is pretty huge.

New route added across the centre area with power up

New area for power up in lower part of central area

New item layout

New design to flag areas

New graphic/theme tweaks or additions

Fixing clipping issues

Lighting

Worked on bot file (although they are still pretty blah)

On the downside,
The Q3 engine is kinda creaking under the strain. The level is still playable on my laptop. I can only apologise if it chugs on older machines. I've kinda gone over board on the visuals.

Stuff still to do:

Sponsor images, I intend these to go on bill boards around the central area building tops

Better bot file

Some clipping

Some lighting

Would love to improve Vis, but think that's pointless.