Pat Howard & fKd - New CTF Alpha

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Pat Howard
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Pat Howard & fKd - New CTF Alpha

Post by Pat Howard »

DOWNLOAD (Latest Update - 5.34MB)

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Hey dudes,

A little while back fKd and I decided to collaborate on a map together. So far we've got a theme and a layout we've both agreed on. This is where you come in :).

We are looking for gameplay feedback right now. The map is a small CTF designed for games of 2v2, 3v3, and maybe 4v4. There are 3 ways into each base but only 2 ways out.

So far I like the center room a lot but the bases aren't quite "magic" yet. I've been trying to re-think them but haven't had much luck. Maybe you all can provide a fresh perspective. BTW, map source is included if you care to suggest changes that way.

Thanks for looking,
-pat
phantazm11
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Re: Pat Howard & fKd - New CTF Alpha

Post by phantazm11 »

Pat.

I played a bit on this and I think you are off to a really solid start. I spawned in base and my first impression was that I didn't particularly care for the theme of the map. But then I entered the mid and the whole open atrium thing with the ©Big Ass Tree made me change my mind.

Unfortunately, I'm not a big fan of the base for gameplay reasons either. The biggest problem, imo, is that it's way too open. Because of this, and the fact that all entrances/exits are unobscured from the flag, it makes the room super easy to defend. The ramp is also rather big. I found myself standing next to the flag and picking off attackers as they made their climb simply by peeking over the edge. With the pillars, the side route is better, and I found myself using this route solely when I went for the flag.

The thing I didn't like most about the mid was the fact that you could only get to the second level by way of the single jumppad. It is a good chokepoint, but I found myself naturally looking for an additional way up every time I entered the mid. It might be a good idea to add a secondary means of gaining access to the upper, even if it is more challenging (jumping up stacked crates for an overused example).

Like I said, you are off to a solid start. Think about redesigning the architecture in the base to provide a bit more cover for the attackers and give the FC a chance to escape. Also, think about extending the nature theme into the base. I would love to see this as once being a greenhouse of sorts for all kind of flora, but it is now abandoned and in ruins, with nature running rampant and taking over the whole facility. Think the Orchid station fom Lost.
cityy
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Re: Pat Howard & fKd - New CTF Alpha

Post by cityy »

Pat Howard & fKd - New CTF Alpha
Spraying already :olo: I hope I will have some time to try it soon.
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fKd
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Re: Pat Howard & fKd - New CTF Alpha

Post by fKd »

ummmm thanks? i think...
Johnny Law
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Re: Pat Howard & fKd - New CTF Alpha

Post by Johnny Law »

Ran it through the overview generator for fun: http://www.neogeographica.com/q3/overviews/phctf_b.html

Good start! The center does feel like the germ of a special small map. Here's a few issues that stood out for me after playing it a while. These are just initial impressions, not Grand Pronouncements, and I also haven't read any other feedback above yet.

- The map is top-heavy. The shortest paths, safest paths, and best items (except for the occasionally spawning regen) are all on higher ground. Having most of the health down low does counteract this a bit, but I generally didn't use the ground unless I fell there.

- As a special case of that, it seems like the obvious choice to exit the flagroom is to RJ out the top window, if you have the health. Extremely short path back home, and minimal center exposure.

- The attack zones coming into the flagroom are all generally on the same side, so a base defender doesn't have to have their head on much of a swivel. (It is good though that there isn't an obvious super-safe camping spot for defenders.)


I've done some quick fiddling with the flagroom, might help generate more ideas. I haven't actually tried to build or play this. Here's the results of my free-association:

[lvlshot]http://www.neogeographica.com/q3/phctf_sketch.png[/lvlshot]

Stuff out-of-sight to the left of camera is more or less the same. I've moved the ramp and the flag toward the camera, so the ramp is snug up against the left walkway.

The rail window at point A would actually be a window -- or maybe a shoot-through-able grate -- but not passable. There would be a hole in the floor (not shown) which would drop down into the low path.

I've added a pillar beside the ramp, and a high ledge. Both of those run out as far as the end of the ramp. I was thinking about a jumppad on the floor at the end of the high ledge; can't see it from this camera position (and I didn't actually create it), but it would be more or less where you get if you travelled in the direction of B to get to the other side of the pillar. Or maybe a slightly more protected jumppad-shaft that opens onto the ledge from the right side.

Several options about how the low path could enter the flagroom. I would lean toward having one entrance right by the new jumppad and another at point C or underneath point D (below the left-hand walk).

Anyway the general ideas here:

- Rail path is definitely one-way now (288 unit drop to the low path, might want to even make it a tad more to be sure).
- When entering via the low path you have a chance to bounce up to get a height advantage in the flag room. Exactly how much you are exposed when doing this depends on where the low entrances are placed.
- Somewhat difficult for a defender to cover the left-high entrance as well as the right-high ledge.
- Flagroom is generally a bit more asymmetrical.

Flagroom proportions are a bit bolloxed up in my hacked version, and I still don't feel a balance among the approaches/defense/exits (e.g. I think a defender might just park on the high ledge), but I must eat now! BTW the mapfile can be downloaded here, if that's more useful than the screenshot: [Edit: removed link to mapfile. LMK if you want it] ... but like I said I basically just mutilated the blue base enough to help me think and then take a picture, it's not buildable/playable.

I haven't really thought about entities yet.

Edit: By the way, I salute you for working on the diagonal. :)
Last edited by Johnny Law on Thu Mar 11, 2010 6:30 am, edited 1 time in total.
cityy
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Re: Pat Howard & fKd - New CTF Alpha

Post by cityy »

I played a 20 minutes 2vs2 ctf today and I must say that I like the map's layout pretty much - my fastest cap was arround 8 seconds.

- IMO there should be another path from the ground floor in mid to the base - maybe coming in somewhere at the 50 health bubble
- there is too less armor - I would remove the RL in mid and place a RA there instead and maybe also put another YA in base
- instead of having only one RL in mid I would place one in each base - this might also improve botplay since atm they only defend their flag with the pg most of the time
- I found myself always rocket jumping out through the railgun window because it is the safest, fastest and easiest way out of the enemy's base - there should either be a jump pad up there for defense or the whole flag room should be lowered a few 64s to make the rocket jump not so easy
- I always hit the wall above the "doors" when I jumped down from the flag into direction of the pg
- you should add some mid spawns

- I like how the +5s at the railgun work out
- the tree is pretty awesome - gives the whole mid something special, visual- and gameplay wise.
- regen is a good power up for the map, qaud would be spawn rape in base and haste would be very hard to defend
- as I mentioned above the gameplay is really fast - I like that
- can't agree with johnny about the railgun path out of the base. It is really good I think - just too easy to take

I am gonna try to mess arround with the map file later - is it ok if I post it here then? Because in the readme you said you should send it via e-mail only.
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ShadoW_86
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Re: Pat Howard & fKd - New CTF Alpha

Post by ShadoW_86 »

I've played 2v2 game, and I must agree about 'one route' gameplay style. After spawn I take Pg, then I use YA-RL-YA route, only going after Regen from time to time. Maybe move RL near Regen spawn, and instead of it put there other weapon (GL?). Or put there PG, and place RLs in bases insted of PG, also move them further into that 2 way corridor, so maybe there will be reason to use lower route :).

Also (I know it will gonna hurt) I think that tree looks just totally out of place :/. For me it doesn't fit at all, and doesn't mix with this textures set. I understand that it probably was of your main ideas that there is such a tree, but personally I would remove it or replace with something else.

Beside of this, I had few nice fast games on it. With further development it's going to be fine level :).
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cityy
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Re: Pat Howard & fKd - New CTF Alpha

Post by cityy »

Also (I know it will gonna hurt) I think that tree looks just totally out of place :/. For me it doesn't fit at all, and doesn't mix with this textures set.
I thought the textures were temporary? If not I agree - though I would rather change textures than remove the tree!
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Hipshot
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Re: Pat Howard & fKd - New CTF Alpha

Post by Hipshot »

The tree looks old and outdated (sorry sock) and it won't help just changing the textures, you need a new model.
I like the idea though, it's a calm feeling being under a tree.
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sock
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Re: Pat Howard & fKd - New CTF Alpha

Post by sock »

Hipshot wrote:The tree looks old and outdated (sorry sock) and it won't help just changing the textures, you need a new model. I like the idea though, it's a calm feeling being under a tree.
Yep, totally agree, that model is over 6 years old and was designed to be only viewed from underneath. If it is going to be the central peice for the middle area I would highly recommend it is replaced with something that has a canopy that looks more realistic. I still like the trunk design and texture.

I tried the map with bots and I found the flagroom frustrating because as defence I could not find a good circuit around the room to collect items. The lower route into each base are too symmetrical and one route should enter the flagroom at the back via a set of stairs. The upper RG I found annoying because of the limited upper access and felt it was a campers paradise for controlling the flag room. As already said, I do like the central area and do hope you go for an http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=indonesian+temple look and feel. The tall tree like buildings would be unique setting for the high walls and bright skyline.
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v1l3
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Re: Pat Howard & fKd - New CTF Alpha

Post by v1l3 »

I thought that it plays good..I played 3vs3 with some bots(which played very well). It seems tiny though. I felt like I was fighting more than capturing.
Pat Howard
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Re: Pat Howard & fKd - New CTF Alpha

Post by Pat Howard »

Hey guys,

Just wanted to take a minute to thank everyone for the awesome feedback. Really great turnout. I wanted to respond to each of you individually but there was just so much I figured simply putting all the ideas into an update was the more practical option.

Unfortunately that never really happened. Due to my productivity slump I decided to take a break and do some traveling. The project is being put on hold indefinitely as I take a little time to refresh and pursue other hobbies. Of course I'll still be lurking around here occasionally, and this is not my goodbye to mapping; I just figured you guys deserve to know what's up as I'll probably be behind the scenes for a little while.

Thanks again,
-pat
fKd
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Re: Pat Howard & fKd - New CTF Alpha

Post by fKd »

cheers for all the maps so far bro, good luck! o7
cityy
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Re: Pat Howard & fKd - New CTF Alpha

Post by cityy »

PAT NO! :tear:
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skinNCNmaster
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Re: Pat Howard & fKd - New CTF Alpha

Post by skinNCNmaster »

go take a look at wizard101 for tree ideas.. they have a couple and making a tree from patches and a couple of textures is pretty easy, the trick is making it animated...

in wizards101, make a free account, go to the wizard school and visit the great tree and the other trees for each magic school, and check them out, they are quite fabulous

ive opened your map in the editor, people who know me will pat you knowingly on the shoulder and say bear with me now...

your ideas pretty solid, building the whole map on a diagonal is tougher than the typical 90 degree orientation, so you get points there :D

the center area is a strong beginning, the half circle side with the ump pad in the middle, i would create a down ramp and drop the jump pad a full player height lower, so that if anyone were to be heading the the ump pad they would be a bit shielded

i havent got photoshop installed alas...

the flag rooms are definately not offendable, lol.

you will need obstructionas of some kinds, things that are walls but are not walls, like walls with windows in them from ctf1, or a railing with spaces wide enough to shoot through but also solid so it may be hid behind... thats makes them see you coming but also affords some cover
sock
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Re: Pat Howard & fKd - New CTF Alpha

Post by sock »

Pat Howard wrote:Due to my productivity slump I decided to take a break and do some travelling.
Hey you, I expect some pictures of your travelling! :p
Good luck with your rest and relaxation.
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Pat Howard
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Re: Pat Howard & fKd - New CTF Alpha

Post by Pat Howard »

sock wrote:I expect some pictures of your travelling!
These are from Vancouver. Enjoy :).

Image

Image

Image

Image

^^butt
obsidian
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Re: Pat Howard & fKd - New CTF Alpha

Post by obsidian »

Where are you from initially and what are your plans in Canada? Welcome to our fine country if you aren't from here and would you be swinging by to Toronto?
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wattro
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Re: Pat Howard & fKd - New CTF Alpha

Post by wattro »

Hey! I live in Vancouver! Where are the pictures of me? Surely I'm some kind of art.
Pat Howard
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Re: Pat Howard & fKd - New CTF Alpha

Post by Pat Howard »

I'm already back! I stayed in Vancouver Island at Qualicum Beach for about a week and a half with my brother who lives there. I'm from NY originally. It was a really peaceful trip. Great place all around.

First pic. is Little Qualicum Falls. Really cool place - looks like Pandora. Next two are just at the beach infront of my brother's house. Last pic. is Heritage Forest.
obsidian
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Re: Pat Howard & fKd - New CTF Alpha

Post by obsidian »

wattro wrote:Where are the pictures of me? Surely I'm some kind of art.
I'm sure wattroporn isn't what he has in mind. :sly:

Pat, you may want to also post your photos on the photo thread in GD.
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Re: Pat Howard & fKd - New CTF Alpha

Post by deqer »

Jeez, I can't wait to download this map just so I can sit under that tree (in screenshot #2) and enjoy the shade, and the scenery; the grass. :)
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