Quake3 Mapping Bugs

[neoplan]

I am actually interested how these bugs work. There is for example a wallbug. U get stuck in the wall and be able to gain massive speed. But How does this work. What i saw is, that it encounters alot with patches, strange angles of brushes combined with clipping textures.

there are also like bugs where u can walk upwards the wall. i had that bug with a 45 degree brush.

I think there are some more. Does somebody know how to create these bugs?
I do maps for a q3 mod DEFRAG and I want to make a map based on that bug.

Regards, Neoplan

[neoplan]

Does nobody know?

[obsidian]

Your question isn't exactly clear. I assume you want to add trick-jumps to your map? I don't play Defrag, but in Q3A and certain mods like CPMA there are certain moves like strafe-jumps, circle-strafe-jumps, ramp-jumps, double-jumps that you can perform to gain a faster momentum than what is normally possible. They aren't "bugs" per se, but they are the players ability to exploit the movement system to maximize momentum.

These things are set in the game code, so it's not something that a mapper would create. What you can do is maximize the amount of geometry that can be utilized for trick-jumps, like adding lots of ramps and ledges. You should check with the Defrag community to see what trick-jumps are possible for that mod and see how you can maximize on them.

[corsair]

I don't think the bug you are after is easy to reproduce. You're best of making a test map with a load of these 'potentialy screwup geometry' areas, including what you mentioned. Make a lot of variations and see if you can get stuck the way you want to. then use that part in your map.

There's a possibility that it won't bug anymore later on though : )

I think, but I may just aswell be wrong, that the bug is created while compiling - While creating the bsp tree, adjacent edges of two surfaces (or radiant blocks), arent recognised as being adjacent. So their position isn't exactly the same, leaving a minimal gap that allows getting stuck.

As for the wallclimbing. It's probably done by placing a bunch of narrow clip brushes behind eachother, that function much like stairs do. IIRC 16 units high is the maximum for a step that doesn't require a jump.

[ix-ir]

The first bug is called a static overbounce, if you're interested I'm sure there will be a good explanation on the OverdrivePC forums if you search. Basically you're stuck partially inside a piece of the map and can build up speed without going anywhere until you're freed from the geometry.

The second bug is caused by non-axial wall surfaces with vertexes that are slightly misaligned by fractions of units. Then the game engine will use stepups (what normally moves you up stairs) to move you up vertical surfaces. Q3's code is supposed to check to prevent this case happening but for some reason it fails.

[neoplan]

Thanks ix-ir !!

I visit overdrivepc.com everyday and actually asked for this bug but nobody has an answer to it so i thought i will ask here.
If u know how to create this static overbounce please explain. Somebody at opc said that u can create this static overbounce everywhere. u just have to put noclip in get about 1unit into a brush....!
K, but i want to create this bug.

For the second bug: K, u know how to create this one?


Hehe, this topic is kind of interesting to me cuz I haven't seen an explanation for these particular bugs.

If there are other bugs which are similar - please tell me.

[obsidian]

I suppose these are mod specific then? Because I have never heard of these in normal Q3 maps.

[neoplan]

No, it's not!
U can see this bug at q3dm9 for example.

Here is an example demo file:
(Map: Q3Dm9)

http://www.badongo.com/file/9776956

[neoplan]

cmon, does nobody have an idea or suggestions?????

[neoplan]

I think, but I may just aswell be wrong, that the bug is created while compiling - While creating the bsp tree, adjacent edges of two surfaces (or radiant blocks), arent recognised as being adjacent. So their position isn't exactly the same, leaving a minimal gap that allows getting stuck.

I found a map which uses the bug. So I contacted the author of the map(a russian guy who hardly speaks englisch) and I asked him about the bug. He said that he thinks that is caused by several brushes with modified angles of about 45 degrees. If u put several of these on top of each other - the bug appears.

I tried that and nothing happened. So I contacted him again and asked if he can send me the .map file but his hdd crashed. So he said that I can decompile the map and therefor have a look. I did that but the thing is:
When I recompile the map, the bug disappears - which brings me back to corsair*s post.

So, is it possible that information gets lost when decompiling a .bsp to .map? (like texture arrangements)

Here is the .pk3 of the map called runmikrob3. http://q3a.ath.cx/?mapdetails=runmikrob-3

Regards

[dichtfux]

There's some trickjump videos over at http://www.own-age.com that show people exploiting some of the bugs you mentioned. You could try to contact the authors of those videos. Sorry, can't remember the name of a particular movie atm. Only thing I know is that there is a (rather boring) video named or made by "Hellraiser" (I *think*) that shows a static overbounce on (pro?)q3dm6.

[neoplan]

Well, I am actually mapping for this mod community. The thing is that even there nobody knows how to reproduce exactly. These things u see in videos at own-age, they are made random.(I mean the bug in the map, not the trick xD )
It has be something with the bsp tree when compiling. When I decompile runmikrob3 and then compile again - the bug disappears.

Play the runmikrob3 and test it on your own. Then decompile(yes, I asked the author) and compile again.

[axbaby]

find the first quake3 pointreleases or maps on quake3 cd.. there were a few quake3 map bugs.
these maps were re-released with a newer pointrelease.

[neoplan]

Ye, I know that there was this bug in q3dm6. At bridge to Rail. There was an angled player clip and you could have the static overbounce there. (like get some 3000 ups (normal walking is 320ups) and jump from bridge to YA within some seconds)
[The only static overbounce I could get with decompiling is shown in a post with an attached demofile above.]
The things is that these things do not really help me. When i decompile a map with a static overbounce and then recompile the map - the static bug is away.


So, might it be due to the fact that q3map2 2.5.16 somehow fixes the bug and that these maps were compiled with a prior compiler that could produce this bug?

[spookmineer]

Decompiling maps will lose some info about the original brush work, and more importantly it doesn't decompile patch meshes very well...
I'm not even sure if a map bug will end up in the map every time, depending of the compiling settings (i.e. it might be a map *and* compile bug, but not sure).
Best option is to look at the wallbug in the original dm6 and try to copy that piece of map to a new map and see if still works after a compile.

[axbaby]

there are other maps that had the wall bug.
i forgot the map but there is a lava pit that had 2 angled jump pads that pushed you on a ledge .. rocket launcher was at ledge. you could walk into the wall at ledge

[Fjoggs]

The OB's are produced by falling from a specific height, hitting a corner/wall that makes your current speed drop to 0 (even though you're still falling). This makes you come back to the excact same height you fell from.
CampingGaz made a list over all known heights.

Some heights require you to jump to OB, other you need to RJ, or just rocket yourself. Plasmajump, plasmabump, walk. There's tons of variations.
Like ix said, search on the overdrivepc forum.

[neoplan]

The OB's are produced by falling from a specific height, hitting a corner/wall that makes your current speed drop to 0 (even though you're still falling). This makes you come back to the excact same height you fell from.
CampingGaz made a list over all known heights.

Some heights require you to jump to OB, other you need to RJ, or just rocket yourself. Plasmajump, plasmabump, walk. There's tons of variations.
Like ix said, search on the overdrivepc forum.

Ye, sure but this is an engine bug. I have these lists but this a different topic.

We are discussing the bug that makes you stuck in a wall. There you can gain speed and get boosted off the wall with highspeed.

Please watch the q3dm9 demo I postet in a previous post. There you see what this bug is about.

[ix-ir]

I sent more detail to neoplan in a personal message but thought I may as well say some of it here for anyone interested. Both bugs seem to be caused by brushes with verts that are not on sensible grid values. 420.0012345 or 419.9999898 sort of thing. Always snap maps to a grid size of 1 or more.

[Fjoggs]

Ye, sure but this is an engine bug. I have these lists but this a different topic.

We are discussing the bug that makes you stuck in a wall. There you can gain speed and get boosted off the wall with highspeed.

Please watch the q3dm9 demo I postet in a previous post. There you see what this bug is about.

I can't even remember posting that post. Musta been a wise drunk when I got home. :P