Q3 map 'q3_bloodflowers' (beta)

[speaker]

Hi.

This is my second UT map conversion. It is based on DM-Bloodflowers originally created by Rafal 'Bad MF' Prusak. This is a medium sized map with an industrial theme. There are basically two levels of platforms, with excellent connectivity between different parts of the map. Suitable for 3-4 FFA (and maybe 2on2 team matches, although IMO the layout has not been designed for that purpose).

Downloads:
PK3 (size 3.2 MB): http://menczel.extra.hu/q3_bloodflowers.zip
MAP (size 150 KB): http://menczel.extra.hu/q3_bloodflowers_map.zip



More screen shots:
http://menczel.extra.hu/q3_bloodflowers_1.jpg
http://menczel.extra.hu/q3_bloodflowers_2.jpg
http://menczel.extra.hu/q3_bloodflowers_3.jpg
http://menczel.extra.hu/q3_bloodflowers_4.jpg

[Grenader]

Links broken.

[speaker]

Hi,

I am sorry about the link not working. This seems to be temporary. The message you reproduced says (in Hungarian):

===================================
Dear Visitor!

We are doing maintenance work on our servers. The WEB pages are going to be accessible again soon. We thank you for your understanding!
===================================

So, please, try downloading later. If it does not work, let me know. I have another WEB page where I can upload the map stuff.

[GONNAFISTYA]

All the links (and images) worked for me.

The screenies look nice. The lighting is an excellent start but I think still needs a bit of tweaking.

I'll give it a go tomorrow and post some feedback.

[v1l3]

I'm on dial-up ...When I go to do a download I only get slightly over 1kb/sec and it usually ends up dying around 700kb's. I commonly get around 6kb/sec anywhere else. I had this happen before when you put up another map(can't remember which one it was). You need a different host..I've been noticing alot of people using Filefront lately.

[speaker]

@v1l3:

I am sorry to hear that you have problems with downloading from 'extra.hu'. I have uploaded the ZIP archive of the map to Filefront, here is the link:

http://hosted.filefront.com/speaker60

Hope it works better.

[v1l3]

yep..got it

I only have the first UT..is this from that or one from of the others? I don't recognize it. Seems fine to me..though I think you should put a propeller behind that fan grate texture..it just looks wrong without it. I think you should think on some new textures though, as the brick ones just seem eh.. The textures just seem real Q1'ish to me..not very detailed. I just think the map could get re-dressed quite a bit. The other Q3 UT remakes that I have, have been done nicely with textures..like the map "q3deck"(at ..::LvL) is a good example.
Of course this is all my opinion, but unless you just want to finish up the map quick..I suggest playing around with the idea.

[speaker]

@v1l3:

Thanks for your comments. BTW, the original map is not part of the standard UT99 distribution or any of its bonus packs. It is a custom map made by the author I mentioned above.

The main brick texture (the gray one) has been extracted from the original UT map. In the original practically every wall (and even parts of the ceiling) were textured using it, and I wanted to retain it for the same 'feel'. Some others are indeed coming from Q1 texture packs. I tried to improve them using Paint Shop Pro but apparently I was not successful

I am not in a hurry to finish this map, so I can spend more time finding suitable textures. Do you have a suggestion about which texture packs would be useful?

[GONNAFISTYA]

Here's some more feedback:

- Like I mentioned earlier, the lighting is a great start but needs more tweaking overall. It seems a bit washed out to me.
- The large acid pit behind the fence...is that supposed to be used at all by anyone? I noticed when spectating that I could fly into the area. Unless you plan on having someone blown in there from an explosion (a very low-percentage event) you should block the whole thing off with clip brushes. This will also help the bots play in the area better as they never once went for the yellow armour.
- Speaking of the yellow armour, I'm thinking it's perhaps because of the proximity of the quad that the bots never go for it. Place some bot roams around the yellow armour to entice the bots to go there.
- I think the area around the red armour is particularly unbalanced. You've got the red armour, rocket launcher and two yellow healths (at the bottom of the ramp below the RL) and if you move forward from the red armour the plasma gun is right there, followed up by two more yellow healths. I had no problem holding this room when I decided to stay there. It just seems like there's too much hardware/armour/health too close for someone to spend a whole match controlling that room.
- Since the level is so small and there are so many weapons, perhaps you don't need as many ammo pickups? Just a suggestion.
- The Q1-ish looking textures are a fine choice for paying homage, but they really look dated. A few times running through the hall I thought for an instant that I was playing Doom II. Just sayin....
- The bots tended to roam/fight around the mega-health water trap alot. If I needed a few easy frags I could just grab the RL and spam the area from an elevated position.
- The bots went to the quad switch and would stare at it (giving me an easy frag) but I didn't see them either trigger the door or go for the quad itself.

Overall this map has potential for some fun, intense battles but a weapon/powerup hog can dominate it fairly easily with the item placement.

Have fun.

[obsidian]

As a reminder, be careful about using textures from commercial games. Most games will not allow you to extract them for use with other games. For example, you are not permitted to use Q1 textures for Q3. I doubt if Id will sue you for something like that, but you should follow their license agreements out of respect for their work and their legal wishes.

You are of course free to make new textures inspired by other games.

[sock]

The main brick texture (the gray one) has been extracted from the original UT map. In the original practically every wall (and even parts of the ceiling) were textured using it, and I wanted to retain it for the same 'feel'. Some others are indeed coming from Q1 texture packs. I tried to improve them using Paint Shop Pro but apparently I was not successful

I am not in a hurry to finish this map, so I can spend more time finding suitable textures. Do you have a suggestion about which texture packs would be useful?

Try this texture pack: http://www.evillair.net/v2/index.php?op ... &Itemid=46
It is made up of a gorgeous grey brick/stone base texture and has a very good Gothic feel.

IMHO you need a theme for this map, the layout is fine, but you only have a basic look at the moment. You need to add the flesh to the level, detail, a theme. Decide what you want the map to look like and create the detail around what you got. If you want a gothic/castle theme then create tall towers above, curvy arches etc. If you want to create a dungeon/underground feeling then use bars/grates, tall ceilings and plenty of rock walls and chains etc.

The current space needs to feel larger, Q3 is about large spaces (certainly the impression of large space) take the top ceiling in the map and double its height, create detail high up, go crazy, nobody cares about old Q3 poly limits anymore. (I am sure someone does cares about poly counts, but yeah whatever) Make a map for you and enjoy it, don't map for others, create something you like the look of, experiment with artist styles. Add details beyond the player space, really put your stamp, impression on the map. So when someone loads the map up for the first time they should go, "wow this is a map by 'speaker', I can tell from the style!"

Hope that helps
Sims

[GONNAFISTYA]

Hey sock. How's it goin?

Still at SD?

[pjw]

stuff

I gave the map a quick look and agree pretty much with everything sock said (btw, how's life Simon? )--the map really needs more detail, more curves, more eye-candy, stuff to make it unique. I realize you're at beta stage and concentrating on layout, but, like sock, I'd encourage you to make the map your own. One thing that would help is to have a couple of interesting vistas in a couple of spots--a big window or opening the player can't get to with something cool looking outside. Just pure eye-candy, really, but it will make the level more memorable and make it stand out. I never found any r_speeds that were very high at all, so you can certainly get away with it.

More stuff:
1) Something weird is going on with the trigger for your lift. If you approach it via strafe-jumping, sometimes it won't trigger at all, and you'll just be left sitting on the (motionless) lift at the bottom.

2) I like the danger of getting both Quad and RA.

3) If you decide to take our suggestion about making the map a bit more "your own" and allowing some changes rather than doing a pure conversion, it would be helpful to make a few areas "level 1.5" (or 2.5). By that, I mean that right now the level is very cleanly divided into "upstairs" and "downstairs" and it feels a bit odd to me. It would be more organic and more interesting if there wasn't such a clear divide between the two.

[speaker]

Thanks to everybody for the constructive criticism and the effort of testing my map.

I agree with most of the suggestions you made. I realize now that I may have been too rigid in following the style and layout of the original map. Also the map is too small. Just by increasing its dimensions by a factor of 1.25, I got a much better version. And I have more ideas about how to improve it. Just wait and see!

[GONNAFISTYA]

Another piece of advice: Don't butcher your original idea from all the feedback just because you feel you need to.

Just a thought, but the suggestions we're making are just that...suggestions. Obviously your map has made it to beta so you've put some thought and work into it so don't feel you need to "please everyone" if it means you'll have do major work and rebuild it (such as scaling the map larger...which leads to item placement redoing, retexturing a bunch of brushes, etc).

Just sayin...

Sometimes making alot of changes to your map (taken in good faith from testers who mean well) can "break it" in terms of whatever original concepts you had when you made it...therefore making it slightly less satisfying upon completion. This is especially true for your own original work as opposed to a conversion.

Don't get me wrong, taking advice and applying it is usually beneficial. But sometimes it can backfire.

Have fun.

[GONNAFISTYA]

Hey pjw. Long time no lookie.

[sock]

Gonnafistya: I left Splashdamage 3yrs ago. I don't really want to take this thread to far OT. There is more details of where I work and want I am doing on my website.

PJW: Hey Pat, hope you and Ford are having fun back sitting together again! Make sure to poke foster to keep buying taffy.

Speaker: Look forward to seeing the new screenshots.

Sims