Americans deep in credit card debt

[Dave]

My credit score is extremely high, but I've also run up a fair credit card debt financing my photography. Considering the amount of money I've made off photography even without advertising, I'm not too worried about it. I keep it in check. If I were really crazy, I'd already have that 1DIII and 300mm lens I've been pining away for.

[Nightshade]

We'll I would use "grandparent's" in place of "parent's" in this situation, but considering you are fucking old, I'm forced to use the latter.

You do realize that you parent's generation, and pretty much every generation before them either bought their house with cash they had or built it themselves, right?

You're absolutely fucking retarded.

[+JuggerNaut+]

well look at him.

[Ryoki]

The good news? Possible bottom will be this year, so *technically, we should be on the rebound into 2009.

I couldn't get that trailer to work due to Quicktime faggotry, but where does this come from? I've been keeping a pretty close eye on the credit crunch news wise, but i haven't seen this prediction before... all i read is the situation will get far worse over the next 6 months...

[kel]

They also lived in log cabins or in shacks down by the river.

We'll I would use "grandparent's" in place of "parent's" in this situation, but considering you are fucking old, I'm forced to use the latter.

You do realize that you parent's generation, and pretty much every generation before them either bought their house with cash they had or built it themselves, right?

[Underpants?]

Ryo, most are saying the biggest threat to the US economy right now is housing. I googled "market analysts predict bottom in 2008," or "what the doomsdaying fuck-punchers say", etc:
http://blogs.wsj.com/economics/2007/12/ ... m-by-june/
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16812267/
http://www.azstarnet.com/sn/byauthor/224263

[Ryoki]

Hmm, thank you mr. Pants, interesting.
Perhaps worth noting that the people in the comment section of the first article seem mostly in disagreement with the author.

[creep]

sort of like this thread.

[Ryoki]

Nah, i think the author of this thread was confronted by people missing his point more than with argumented disagreement.

[plained]

ive used cc for everything for over 15 years now

i get 2% back on every dollor i spend on my everyday card.

and ive never had another card that could beat that 2 %.

morgages are fine and all , but i get those home equity line of credit instead, way more better options and way more liquid and if i want to make some moves with it i decide.

[Scourge]

I'm not trying to be a prick, but if you've managed to obtain a mortgage loan without credit cards, you've either been shafted on the upfront costs/interest (a shady mortgage broker will fuck you ten ways from friday and you likely still don't know it) or you've financed a very modest amount, either with a sizable down payment or posted some form of collateral.
Also not trying to be a prick but if you've never owned a credit card or have paid one off and closed it in the distant past, chances are you aren't watching your credit score--I can almost guarantee it's below 660--which is considered mediocre at best. Let's put it this way, not having a credit card without the privilege of brilliant accounting excludes you from having flawless ratings.

I'll agree with the modest amount. Housing just isn't that expensive here. The interest is fixed rate at 6%, which might be a little high, but I'm paying it off in about half the time which will cut down the total considerably. Down payment was around 2%.

I also agree though that credit cards can greatly help your credit score if used right. I do have one now that I don't really use which could help if I ever decided to sell this house and get one more expensive.

Nah, i think the author of this thread was confronted by people missing his point more than with argumented disagreement.

Or the thread just turned in a different direction than originally intended. As they often do.

[Underpants?]

sort of like this thread.

The links notwithstanding, the smartest financial brains I know, ie. those whom I'd consider personal advisers agree with the general sentiments. Just thought I'd pass on what I hear. As they say in France, "if you don't like it, fuck yerrself."

[Underpants?]

I'm not trying to be a prick, but if you've managed to obtain a mortgage loan without credit cards, you've either been shafted on the upfront costs/interest (a shady mortgage broker will fuck you ten ways from friday and you likely still don't know it) or you've financed a very modest amount, either with a sizable down payment or posted some form of collateral.
Also not trying to be a prick but if you've never owned a credit card or have paid one off and closed it in the distant past, chances are you aren't watching your credit score--I can almost guarantee it's below 660--which is considered mediocre at best. Let's put it this way, not having a credit card without the privilege of brilliant accounting excludes you from having flawless ratings.

I'll agree with the modest amount. Housing just isn't that expensive here. The interest is fixed rate at 6%, which might be a little high, but I'm paying it off in about half the time which will cut down the total considerably. Down payment was around 2%.

I also agree though that credit cards can greatly help your credit score if used right. I do have one now that I don't really use which could help if I ever decided to sell this house and get one more expensive.

Nah, i think the author of this thread was confronted by people missing his point more than with argumented disagreement.

Or the thread just turned in a different direction than originally intended. As they often do.

yeah it kind of did?
let me start over:
Main points:
1. Market is still sliding downward, anyone can believe that.
2. Generally speaking inflation fists those with large amounts of credit debt (even if paying close to no interest, when your dollar is worth less, you're paying more)
Side conversation:
1. you need good credit for better rates
BULLET! - lower interest
BULLET! - better risk assessment (insurance rates, etc.)
BULLET! - seriously though.

whatever, maybe I've wasted a lot of time here. I consider all of you my inter-buddies and to that end, hopefully some of you will see this as helpful information. If not, it was a nice conversation anyway and maybe stimulated some thought.

[Scourge]

I'm with you on all of that.

[creep]

I generally agree as well... I just wanted to disagree with what looked like you saying "you need to have a good credit rating, and that means you need to have/use credit cards". Yes, responsible cc usage will lead to a good credit rating. No, it is not necessary to have a great credit rating and/or credit cards to get the credit you "need" (to buy a home, etc).

With so many people in credit card trouble, it seems silly go around telling everyone they must have a credit card. Maybe that was part of your point and I did just miss it.

[Underpants?]

nope, I disagree wholly with you. I think everyone needs a credit card who wants to be treated fairly. I also think everyone who has a credit card needs to exercise self-control. Just my .02, for what it's worth

if you're saying there's no possible way to have both a credit card and self control, then you're starting a lesser of 2 evils discussion that should obviate certain people from ever establishing credit. Which is a main theme in the documentary in my first post in this thread

[creep]

Welp... I stick with what I said. I don't have one. Don't want one. Doing just fine without one.

[Underpants?]

hey, good to hear it, and I respect your choice.

Unfortunately, I am not as unbound as you, and my sadly lacking savings and kids' college fund accounts vitally depend on cheap auto insurance, low mortgage and credit card rates.

[R00k]

I've never had a cc, but I'm probably going to get one soon, for the sole purpose of bettering my credit score. I've never had a problem getting a car, a phone, etc. with my credit score, but there have been times I wished my score was better. And, as you say, for people who don't have a ton of liquid cash, the easiest way to build your credit is with a card. Use it, pay it off, never accumulate interest on it, and watch your score climb.

I've just always had a deep dislike for cc's in general, which is why I've never been able to make myself get one. But honestly they're only bad for people who use them irresponsibly -- i.e., people who buy things that they can't afford without one.

[seremtan]

Truth. A good reason to get a credit card is to build up your credit rating should you ever need to get a mortgage or other financial loans. The idea is to make purchases on your credit card and pay everything off at the end of the month so you don't get nailed with interest charges. If you're fairly reliable with your payments, they'll see a good credit history and consider you a secure investment.

[seremtan]

also, my CC has 5% cashback at certain supermarkets, i.e. the one i use, so in effect my CC provider ends up paying me every month

[Grudge]

lol, you Americans and your credit card culture

[Deji]

Housing prices will never bottom out by June 2008. Ask anyone who's seen a housing/credit bubble burst, like the Finns or Swedes. A housing bubble is a shitstorm and it hasn't even begun to rain in the US yet.

Americans are so deep into debt it's absolutely unbelievable, if the coming recession should stop, or even worse, reverse the credit inflow to the US from the rest of the world, you have a deflation imminent which pretty much means that the banking system is putting up a big fucking sign with the phrase "We failed".

[Underpants?]

hasn't even begun to rain yet??
jesus chriiiist DJdejieGee how the bad do you think it will get?
:sick: it's pretty bad right now... how more many more hard-working people worldwide will lose their retirements and life investments? I don't have a crystal ball but I will say I hope not many more.

I'm digressing here again but, yeah... those turrorists knew exactly what they were doing. I'm pretty sure you're right, we're going to see worse, but it's fucking pretty horrible now, and I cling to the hope that it's only going to be short term. Pardon my optimism, folks.

"...Las Vegas--where 40% of the houses up for sale now sit vacant. What's astonishing about this particular real estate bust, though, is the way the damage has pinballed across the financial universe: mortgage companies in Los Angeles, banks in Seattle, hedge funds in Australia, the European Central Bank, Wall Street investment houses and Main Street stockholders have all had the American real estate market fall on them."

source Time Magazine

[Deji]

hasn't even begun to rain yet??
jesus chriiiist DJdejieGee how the bad do you think it will get?
:sick: it's pretty bad right now... how more many more hard-working people worldwide will lose their retirements and life investments? I don't have a crystal ball but I will say I hope not many more.

I'm digressing here again but, yeah... those turrorists knew exactly what they were doing. I'm pretty sure you're right, we're going to see worse, but it's fucking pretty horrible now, and I cling to the hope that it's only going to be short term. Pardon my optimism, folks.

"...Las Vegas--where 40% of the houses up for sale now sit vacant. What's astonishing about this particular real estate bust, though, is the way the damage has pinballed across the financial universe: mortgage companies in Los Angeles, banks in Seattle, hedge funds in Australia, the European Central Bank, Wall Street investment houses and Main Street stockholders have all had the American real estate market fall on them."

source Time Magazine

Some examples from the housing bust in Finland:
*I know of a case where a residence's value dropped to 20% of it's peak
*Unemployment rate rose to 16%
*Average price dropped from 1700EUR/sqm in 1990 to 1000EUR/sqm in 1993, a 41% drop in 3 years, making real-estate cheaper than it was 13 years before, when considering purchase power.
*GDP dropped by a tenth, reaching a level where it was 10 years ago.
*Homes were foreclosed and a frightening amount of people ended up owing the bank tens of thousands of euros for nearly 17 years, the last of the unpaid debt in the sum of about a billion euros was finally erased in 2008.

You have just begun to see the problems that financial institutions and real-estate developers have, the difficulties have just barely hit the general population. Corporate earnings, and as a result, the average wage will go down, unemployment will go up and this means the real-estate market will have even more foreclosures due to people who are now unemployed or on a worse salary, which causes problems for financials, which means more unemployment, which means more foreclosures.. you get the point.