Would you give up your sovereignty for world peace?

Post by **losCHUNK** » Thu Apr 07, 2005 12:59 am

aye aye

Post by **Tormentius** » Thu Apr 07, 2005 1:05 am

Kracus wrote:I think we might have to evolve beyond religion to be able to work as a world community.

I'd say cultural differences, hate, and greed present much more of a challenge to overcome than religious differences.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Thu Apr 07, 2005 1:10 am

Tormentius wrote:
Kracus wrote:I think we might have to evolve beyond religion to be able to work as a world community.

I'd say cultural differences, hate, and greed present much more of a challenge to overcome than religious differences.

I agree, but I think overcoming this isn't something that's going to happen in one step. You need steps leading to this to have something like that accomplished. the first step would be to get rid of religion. The fact is religion is the reason many different cultures disagree with each other, either for religious reasons or land or habits. If you scratch out religion then you have people that simply disagree. And solving a disagreement like logical human beings is much easier than solving a dissagreement over who has the best imaginary friend. Because neither are being very logical.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Thu Apr 07, 2005 1:20 am

In an idealistic world...I've always been for it since my young age.
As I read it, I was already thinking about John Lennon.
How old are you?
My Beatles are always my favorite. First album I bought, vinyl disk.
I had the whole collection and I have some memorative cards we used to buy with a pack of gum.
I know...You, young guys don't know them much.
At least they had messages in their songs.

Imagine

Imagine there's no heaven,
It's easy if you try,
No hell below us,
Above us only sky,
Imagine all the people
living for today...

Imagine there's no countries,
It isnt hard to do,
Nothing to kill or die for,
No religion too,
Imagine all the people
living life in peace...

Imagine no possesions,
I wonder if you can,
No need for greed or hunger,
A brotherhood of man,
Imagine all the people
Sharing all the world...

You may say Im a dreamer,
but Im not the only one,
I hope some day you'll join us,
And the world will live as one.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Writen by: John Lennon

Pete

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Thu Apr 07, 2005 1:25 am

stfu the beatles were all gay.

Post by **Dr_Watson** » Thu Apr 07, 2005 1:50 am

whatever pete has been smoking, i'd like some.

Post by **Massive Quasars** » Thu Apr 07, 2005 2:04 am

redfella wrote:Nationalism bears its mark on every people group on Earth. It is a natural, intrinsic, human quality that has existed for centuries... To challenge that fact by asking if we could deny our nationalistic beliefs is naive.

lol, don't be silly. Nationalism is the civilized man's tribal affiliation.

Europe is no longer extremely nationalistic, and the continent is better off because of that. Aside from European soccer matches, I don't see too many displays of extreme nationalism in that area.

Post by **Jackal** » Thu Apr 07, 2005 2:05 am

Kracus wrote:stfu the beatles were all gay.

spoken like a true person who knows nothing.

Post by **mjrpes** » Thu Apr 07, 2005 2:11 am

pete wrote: My Beatles are always my favorite.

No! They're MY beatles :icon33:

Post by **redfella** » Thu Apr 07, 2005 2:12 am

Kracus wrote:I agree, but I think overcoming this isn't something that's going to happen in one step. You need steps leading to this to have something like that accomplished. the first step would be to get rid of religion.

If you attempt to "get rid of religion" you in affect are creating a facist, independant 'state'... and will likewise bear the results of that decision (social upheavel and opposing cultural forces and beliefs). There is no "easy button" that you can push to just make religion disappear. In fact, you would in essence just be creating another 'religon' (of atheists, if you will) to fight against those whom already believe in their respective, and established, religion(s). Wouldn't work, I'd imagine.

You'd have to give reason, inspiration, and incentive for differing people to join in a common cause to work and live together. However, I honestly believe that there will never be just "one nation". Just look at all the different types out there... Different cultures, societies, people groups... religions. This is what makes this world great. We are not all just the same thing. We are not robots. We have an established identity w/ country, location, society and culture. We enjoy who we are and what we believe. Why change it?

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Thu Apr 07, 2005 2:14 am

Dr_Watson wrote:whatever pete has been smoking, i'd like some.

Isn't near your place that John and Yoko had a Peace pyjamas party?
Pete

Post by **redfella** » Thu Apr 07, 2005 2:21 am

Massive Quasars wrote:lol, don't be silly. Nationalism is the civilized man's tribal affiliation.

If we can't identify with a "nation" (aka a group of peoples that represent and uphold a personal way of thought and motivation) where have we gotten... really? -We wouldn't be any better than that of cavemen, scratching on walls, forming visions of self and destiny. Accept the evolution.

Post by **Dr_Watson** » Thu Apr 07, 2005 2:21 am

pete wrote:
Dr_Watson wrote:whatever pete has been smoking, i'd like some.
Isn't near your place that John and Yoko had a Peace pyjamas party?
Pete

woodstock is only a few hours by car.
can probably still get high by eating the dirt.

---

back on topic though,
the only way the world will unite under a common banner is if we discover other intelligent alien life.
once we have another civilization to compete with I could see everyone joining hands and sharing a coke in peace and alien crushing.

Post by **redfella** » Thu Apr 07, 2005 2:24 am

Dr_Watson wrote:back on topic though,
the only way the world will unite under a common banner is if we discover other intelligent alien life.
once we have another civilization to compete with I could see everyone joining hands and sharing a coke in peace and alien crushing.

word.

Post by **losCHUNK** » Thu Apr 07, 2005 2:25 am

watson got it

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Thu Apr 07, 2005 2:30 am

mjrpes wrote:
pete wrote: My Beatles are always my favorite.
No! They're MY beatles :icon33:

No, there are mines...Unless you are older than me ...
Even so...They're mine.

Pete

Post by **HM-PuFFNSTuFF** » Thu Apr 07, 2005 2:33 am

Dr_Watson wrote:
pete wrote:
Dr_Watson wrote:whatever pete has been smoking, i'd like some.
Isn't near your place that John and Yoko had a Peace pyjamas party?
Pete
woodstock is only a few hours by car.
can probably still get high by eating the dirt.

---

back on topic though,
the only way the world will unite under a common banner is if we discover other intelligent alien life.
once we have another civilization to compete with I could see everyone joining hands and sharing a coke in peace and alien crushing.

john and yoko's bed-in was in Montreal.

Post by **HM-PuFFNSTuFF** » Thu Apr 07, 2005 2:33 am

Kracus wrote:stfu the beatles were all gay.

culture. get some

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Thu Apr 07, 2005 3:08 am

HM-PuFFNSTuFF wrote:
Dr_Watson wrote:
pete wrote: Isn't near your place that John and Yoko had a Peace pyjamas party?
Pete
woodstock is only a few hours by car.
can probably still get high by eating the dirt.

---

back on topic though,
the only way the world will unite under a common banner is if we discover other intelligent alien life.
once we have another civilization to compete with I could see everyone joining hands and sharing a coke in peace and alien crushing.

http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/english/do ... 333302.htm

john and yoko's bed-in was in MontrealSo! Isn't NY just across the border?

Post by **Jackal** » Thu Apr 07, 2005 4:16 am

redfella wrote:
Kracus wrote:I agree, but I think overcoming this isn't something that's going to happen in one step. You need steps leading to this to have something like that accomplished. the first step would be to get rid of religion.
If you attempt to "get rid of religion" you in affect are creating a facist, independant 'state'... and will likewise bear the results of that decision (social upheavel and opposing cultural forces and beliefs). There is no "easy button" that you can push to just make religion disappear. In fact, you would in essence just be creating another 'religon' (of atheists, if you will) to fight against those whom already believe in their respective, and established, religion(s). Wouldn't work, I'd imagine.

You'd have to give reason, inspiration, and incentive for differing people to join in a common cause to work and live together. However, I honestly believe that there will never be just "one nation". Just look at all the different types out there... Different cultures, societies, people groups... religions. This is what makes this world great. We are not all just the same thing. We are not robots. We have an established identity w/ country, location, society and culture. We enjoy who we are and what we believe. Why change it?

You can never get rid of religion, it is an inevitable social phenomenon. Every culture ever has had some sort of religion. Everyboody on this earth believes in something one way or the other. Even a nihilist believes in something despite it being antithetical to their very "belief". If nobody had any sort of belief system their would be no society, nothing would work. All those people who argue against religion are, frankly, foolish. There has never been, nor ever will be an individual who demonstrates such mental control that they believe in nothing at all. Organized religion has a role and without it society wouldn't exist.
Now, perhaps if it wasn't Christianity that was so wide spread things would be a lot better. We sure wouldn't have society as we know it but I don't think that would be a bad thing.

Post by **Massive Quasars** » Thu Apr 07, 2005 4:19 am

Are you familiar with Pascal Boyer, Jackal?

Post by **Massive Quasars** » Thu Apr 07, 2005 4:28 am

Posted in the Mormon thread:

Massive Quasars wrote:I don't want this to become a religion thread either, because I hate Kracus so.

But at the risk of creating such a thread, did anyone catch Rough Cuts on the CBC last night? The CBC also reported that ~30% of Canadians have no religious affiliation.

It will be rerun on "April 8, 2005 at 10pm ET/PT on CBC Newsworld", if you're interested.

Post by **Canis** » Thu Apr 07, 2005 5:56 am

IMO religion is fine as long as people can be open and accepting of other beliefs and religious/social/cultural practices. But of course, this will absolutely never happen, so IMO religion is ultimately a bad thing for people, even though on the individual level it does wonders...

Post by **SplishSplash** » Thu Apr 07, 2005 6:41 am

Doomer has provided the right answer.

Post by **Ryoki** » Thu Apr 07, 2005 8:07 am

To unify mankind we must first discover an alien species and declare war on them.