Lots and lots of improvements in this one. Try it out and give me your suggestions if you feel like it! Feedback is very appreciated.
DOWNLOAD: http://files-upload.com/files/498190/alm3dm5_alpha3.zip
MIRROR: http://upload2.net/page/download/aB9lsE ... 3.zip.html
[lvlshot]http://image.bayimg.com/haghdaabo.jpg[/lvlshot]
[lvlshot]http://image.bayimg.com/haghgaabo.jpg[/lvlshot]
[lvlshot]http://image.bayimg.com/haghiaabo.jpg[/lvlshot]
[lvlshot]http://image.bayimg.com/haghkaabo.jpg[/lvlshot]
alm3dm5 - [ALPHA 3] - updated again!
alm3dm5 - [ALPHA 3] - updated again!
Last edited by ALMighty on Wed Sep 12, 2007 8:01 pm, edited 6 times in total.
Re: alm3dm5 - No title yet - ALPHA 1
I compiled the AAS perfectly fine here. 
I included my batch file and logs so you can see my settings and hopefully figure it out from there.
Download
A few quick thoughts on the map:
* There's no health!
* Very long lines of sight (and point #1) made me pretty much stay at all times on the opposite side of the map and rail. You're also going to have a hell of a time hinting this thing since it is essentially a very large box map.
* I wouldn't make the map much bigger, the overall size is fine though a little spaced out. You'll have to tighten things up a little which will also help with point #2.
* You have different levels, which is good, but you need to use them effectively for some more interesting vertical gameplay. Like maybe some overhangs, bridges, alcoves. Probably related to the above points, but I didn't feel a need to use the vertical aspects since I was just railing horizontally.
* That said, I do like the horizontal pillar idea, makes for some interesting nooks and crannies but be careful of turning this into a hide-and-seek-forest-of-pillars kind of thing. Hiding from opponents slows down gameplay. You can put some lights behind the pillars and end up with some really interesting shadows (hint: -samples 2-3 -bounce 4-8).
* I thought that the pillars in the first screenshot could be modified to create some sort of bridge. It would be fun to be able to climb up there.
Overall, some interesting ideas and concepts that you should follow through on, but I think the layout needs to be redone to really improve gameplay.
I included my batch file and logs so you can see my settings and hopefully figure it out from there.Download
A few quick thoughts on the map:
* There's no health!
* Very long lines of sight (and point #1) made me pretty much stay at all times on the opposite side of the map and rail. You're also going to have a hell of a time hinting this thing since it is essentially a very large box map.
* I wouldn't make the map much bigger, the overall size is fine though a little spaced out. You'll have to tighten things up a little which will also help with point #2.
* You have different levels, which is good, but you need to use them effectively for some more interesting vertical gameplay. Like maybe some overhangs, bridges, alcoves. Probably related to the above points, but I didn't feel a need to use the vertical aspects since I was just railing horizontally.
* That said, I do like the horizontal pillar idea, makes for some interesting nooks and crannies but be careful of turning this into a hide-and-seek-forest-of-pillars kind of thing. Hiding from opponents slows down gameplay. You can put some lights behind the pillars and end up with some really interesting shadows (hint: -samples 2-3 -bounce 4-8).
* I thought that the pillars in the first screenshot could be modified to create some sort of bridge. It would be fun to be able to climb up there.
Overall, some interesting ideas and concepts that you should follow through on, but I think the layout needs to be redone to really improve gameplay.
Re: alm3dm5 - No title yet - ALPHA 1
Oh, you are my hero! How did you do that? Gonna have to check out that batch file.
Oh and thanks for the feedback! I think you pretty much nailed it. Basically what I think needs to be fixed myself. I wouldn't have released it like this if it weren't for me not being able to compile the bot file, because I really wanted to try it out with bots. Now that I've done that with your help, there's no doubt that it's much too open and horisontal. It's very boring to play like this, definately needs to be tightened like you said! I've got some work to do.
Oh and thanks for the feedback! I think you pretty much nailed it. Basically what I think needs to be fixed myself. I wouldn't have released it like this if it weren't for me not being able to compile the bot file, because I really wanted to try it out with bots. Now that I've done that with your help, there's no doubt that it's much too open and horisontal. It's very boring to play like this, definately needs to be tightened like you said! I've got some work to do.
Re: alm3dm5 - No title yet - ALPHA 1
It was a pretty basic BSPC compile:
bspc.exe -bsp2aas [dir\map].bsp -forcesidesvisible -optimize
bspc.exe -bsp2aas [dir\map].bsp -forcesidesvisible -optimize
Re: alm3dm5 - No title yet - ALPHA 1
It doesn't work when I do that here. It says "empty BSP tree" and shuts down. 
Re: alm3dm5 - No title yet - ALPHA 1
I managed to fix it now.
Re: alm3dm5 - No title yet - ALPHA 1
To help future searchers browsing through the boards looking to solve the same issue, it's customary to post the solution.
Re: alm3dm5 - No title yet - ALPHA 1
Yeah, sorry I don't know what I did actually. I ran bsp2map and then when I compiled and ran bsp2aas, it worked! I'm not sure that was what I did though, because isn't it supposed to add _converted to the filename if doing this? It didn't for me, I compiled the .map with the same filename as before. Very strange. I'm just glad it's working now.
Re: alm3dm5 - [ALPHA 2] - updated!
Updated to alpha 2!
Re: alm3dm5 - [ALPHA 2] - updated!
_converted is only appended to the resulting map file when decompiling a map using Q3Map2's -bsp2map function.
I don't see why you are using the bsp2map function since it is your own map.
I don't see why you are using the bsp2map function since it is your own map.
Re: alm3dm5 - [ALPHA 2] - updated!
Cool! I've been out of town for a few days and just saw this. Got visitors atm, but I promise that I'll check it out on Sunday!
[color=#FFFFFF][url=http://maps.rcmd.org]my FPS maps[/url][/color]
Re: alm3dm5 - [ALPHA 2] - updated!
I agree on the things obsidian said. I didn't see alpha1, but some of them are still true for alpha2.
The layout doesn't look bad at all for a FFA map, but imo the map coud use some more height differences within the second floor. As you can see in the image below, there's some pretty long LOS there (it's not the only one), and the floor is flat in a large area.
The screenshot also shows a rather dead area - there's little reason to travel there. This is true for most parts of the upper level. Run around the whole map on the upper level in a big circle, grab every item along the path and think about why anybody would ever want to do this. Do the same for the lower level and think about the difference.
The action is always in the RG
-> RA area. Against bots, it seemed best to me to camp near the lower PG and rail people, then grab the +50H next to me or run whenever I got hurt seriously. (You can also grab RA easily from there, but that's no problem since you can grab it easily from almost everywhere. More on this later.)
I think item placement needs lots of work. The rail ammo on that nice ledge is useless because there's RGs spread over the whole map anyways (because people drop it when they die and everybody has it cause it's in such a central position, far too near to RA btw).
You need to seperate RA and RG further (see image below) and for a map of this size, you need more than one point for the fighting to take place.
I'd suggest placing a YA somewhere on the upper level, both to keep everyone from just running towards RA/RG after respawn (making more use of the rest of the map) and to give the map some balance. Another possibility would be to move RA somewhere else (to the second floor) and have a YA where RA is now and the MH on the RG-ammo ledge.
There's also some places in the map that seem to be made for placing an item there (like the position marked with a red cross in the second screenshot I posted), but they are emtpy or hold very minor stuff (like the RL-ammo above RA - what about switching those for example?).
The layout doesn't look bad at all for a FFA map, but imo the map coud use some more height differences within the second floor. As you can see in the image below, there's some pretty long LOS there (it's not the only one), and the floor is flat in a large area.
The screenshot also shows a rather dead area - there's little reason to travel there. This is true for most parts of the upper level. Run around the whole map on the upper level in a big circle, grab every item along the path and think about why anybody would ever want to do this. Do the same for the lower level and think about the difference.
The action is always in the RG
-> RA area. Against bots, it seemed best to me to camp near the lower PG and rail people, then grab the +50H next to me or run whenever I got hurt seriously. (You can also grab RA easily from there, but that's no problem since you can grab it easily from almost everywhere. More on this later.)I think item placement needs lots of work. The rail ammo on that nice ledge is useless because there's RGs spread over the whole map anyways (because people drop it when they die and everybody has it cause it's in such a central position, far too near to RA btw).
You need to seperate RA and RG further (see image below) and for a map of this size, you need more than one point for the fighting to take place.
I'd suggest placing a YA somewhere on the upper level, both to keep everyone from just running towards RA/RG after respawn (making more use of the rest of the map) and to give the map some balance. Another possibility would be to move RA somewhere else (to the second floor) and have a YA where RA is now and the MH on the RG-ammo ledge.
There's also some places in the map that seem to be made for placing an item there (like the position marked with a red cross in the second screenshot I posted), but they are emtpy or hold very minor stuff (like the RL-ammo above RA - what about switching those for example?).
[color=#FFFFFF][url=http://maps.rcmd.org]my FPS maps[/url][/color]
Re: alm3dm5 - [ALPHA 2] - updated!
This has motivated me to fire up my desktop PC to play Q3 that's been sitting dormant for months.
FYI.
FYI.
Re: alm3dm5 - [ALPHA 2] - updated!
This is a good observation. I haven't spent as much time the upper floor as the rest which is probably the reason for it being less interesting. The area above the lightning gun is the worst because I didn't really spend any time on that yet. I made this whole map over a period of 2 days, and I guess it still shows in some areas.dichtfux wrote: imo the map coud use some more height differences within the second floor. As you can see in the image below, there's some pretty long LOS there (it's not the only one), and the floor is flat in a large area.
I was thinking of putting some item like a yellow armor or megahealth onthe upper floor to make it more attractive (after reading through your postagain I see you also mentioned this). And have some more paths leading down a floor to take away the big flat areas and makethem more interesting.dichtfux wrote: The screenshot also shows a rather dead area - there's little reason to travel there. This is true for most parts of the upper level. Run around the whole map on the upper level in a big circle, grab every item along the path and think about why anybody would ever want to do this. Do the same for the lower level and think about the difference.
Last edited by ALMighty on Mon Sep 10, 2007 9:40 am, edited 1 time in total.
Re: alm3dm5 - [ALPHA 2] - updated!
This is definately true, I need to spread out the action more with more items besides the RA in different areas.dichtfux wrote: The action is always in the RG
Good point. I have to say I'm pretty pleased with how the weapons are placed. Except the lower PG, I just threw that inthere and I'll probably delete it and change that whole side room. All the weapons have their uses are competitive in areas where they are most effective. At the same time they have their vulnerable areas, I mean railgun is not very good in the lowest area, and you have to take a risk to go down there and get it. To get to the upper level it takes you a while, so players have to think before going down there for it. The lightning gun is also a threat to the railgun, and also the grenade launcher I found was pretty effective in the RG area.dichtfux wrote: I think item placement needs lots of work. The rail ammo on that nice ledge is useless because there's RGs spread over the whole map anyways (because people drop it when they die and everybody has it cause it's in such a central position, far too near to RA btw).
The plasmagun is really effective on the large areas in the upper floor, but not powerful enough to dominate the map if you stay up there. The best combination is probably the railgun in the upper floor with lots of ammo. But to get more ammo you have to go the the middle floor and jump down to the lower again, which takes time. The plasmagun in the upper floor is a threat to the railgun too, and pretty effective against it in those large areas.
The rest of the items besides weapons definately needs work though, I haven't really thought a lot abouthow they are placed now and it absolutely shows.
Re: alm3dm5 - [ALPHA 2] - updated!
Yeah, I see what you mean.dichtfux wrote: You need to seperate RA and RG further (see image below) and for a map of this size, you need more than one point for the fighting to take place.
These are some good ideas, I actually thought of some of them myself. Feels good to hear it from someone else! Guess I'm not an entirely stupid level designer. Some of the ideas were new to me though and they seem like good ideas. I'll try them out!dichtfux wrote: I'd suggest placing a YA somewhere on the upper level, both to keep everyone from just running towards RA/RG after respawn (making more use of the rest of the map) and to give the map some balance. Another possibility would be to move RA somewhere else (to the second floor) and have a YA where RA is now and the MH on the RG-ammo ledge.
There's also some places in the map that seem to be made for placing an item there (like the position marked with a red cross in the second screenshot I posted), but they are emtpy or hold very minor stuff (like the RL-ammo above RA - what about switching those for example?).
Thanks lot dichtfux, I really appreciate it. I hope can live up to your feedback in the next alpha. Otherwise I'll try again I guess.
Last edited by ALMighty on Mon Sep 10, 2007 9:35 am, edited 2 times in total.
Re: alm3dm5 - [ALPHA 2] - updated!
Nice! Don't see why, but I'm flattered.Foo wrote:This has motivated me to fire up my desktop PC to play Q3 that's been sitting dormant for months.
FYI.
Please tell me what you think of it, even if you don't like it.
Re: alm3dm5 - [ALPHA 3] - updated again!
I dunno what's up with the link, but it won't let me download the whole file. It dies out at like 150kb's. I tried d/l'ing alpha2 like 10 times =/ I'm on dial-up but it shouldn't make a difference I wouldn't think.
Re: alm3dm5 - [ALPHA 3] - updated again!
Strange, it works here. :/v1l3 wrote:I dunno what's up with the link, but it won't let me download the whole file. It dies out at like 150kb's. I tried d/l'ing alpha2 like 10 times =/ I'm on dial-up but it shouldn't make a difference I wouldn't think.
Anyway, I added a download mirror. Hopefully that works for you.
Re: alm3dm5 - [ALPHA 3] - updated again!
Thx for the link, I got it. =)
I like what you've done so far...it's definitely better then alpha1. The vertical layout spinning around the center structure is a nice idea..I'm sure it will develop into something nice in the end. In a way it still feels quite a bit open...not necessarily in the center of the map, but the wideness of the walkways that surround the map. I like the arch style things that close things off to those walkways, so it's not completely open. I enabled promode to make the gameplay more fast paced so I could cover more ground quicker as it's a big map. It's nice to see you making another map..I'm a big fan of alm3dm4v2.
I like what you've done so far...it's definitely better then alpha1. The vertical layout spinning around the center structure is a nice idea..I'm sure it will develop into something nice in the end. In a way it still feels quite a bit open...not necessarily in the center of the map, but the wideness of the walkways that surround the map. I like the arch style things that close things off to those walkways, so it's not completely open. I enabled promode to make the gameplay more fast paced so I could cover more ground quicker as it's a big map. It's nice to see you making another map..I'm a big fan of alm3dm4v2.
Re: alm3dm5 - [ALPHA 3] - updated again!
Nice to hear you like my previous map, it was a big step up for me gameplay wise when I made it, as I think this one is for me now.v1l3 wrote:Thx for the link, I got it. =)
I like what you've done so far...it's definitely better then alpha1. The vertical layout spinning around the center structure is a nice idea..I'm sure it will develop into something nice in the end. In a way it still feels quite a bit open...not necessarily in the center of the map, but the wideness of the walkways that surround the map. I like the arch style things that close things off to those walkways, so it's not completely open. I enabled promode to make the gameplay more fast paced so I could cover more ground quicker as it's a big map. It's nice to see you making another map..I'm a big fan of alm3dm4v2.
I see what you mean about the openess of it, it's something I've thought of too. I think I'll tighten it up with some more walls or pillars, and maybe move in the outer walls a bit more. There are some areas that I'm not quite happy with yet, like the area around the lighting gun, and a lot of the upper level feels rather bland, maybe make it more interesting and fun to be in by making it more vertical like dichtfux said before.
Those will probably change for the next alpha. I think the item placement is a really big improvement in this one, as I planned it out a bit more than before. I would like to hear someone's thoughts on that.
Re: alm3dm5 - [ALPHA 3] - updated again!
Definetely an improvement over beta2! I like the changes and the MH spot. The upper YA is a good idea, there's still a rather huge flat area nearby though. Maybe some pillars could brake it up (or just make it smaller).
The bots don't work for me, they don't move (did you use -forcesidesvisible?).
Looking forward to the first beta!
The bots don't work for me, they don't move (did you use -forcesidesvisible?).
Looking forward to the first beta!
[color=#FFFFFF][url=http://maps.rcmd.org]my FPS maps[/url][/color]