Q4 1v1, 2v2, 3v3(maybe) CTF

[dnky]

This is a small (1v1, 2v2, or at a push 3v3)CTF level for Q4. The theme comes very much from spending too much time surfing around sites like 'abandoned places'. My original idea was to build a level set in decaying industrial setting.
The broken ceiling and light panels are Lunaran's work from Stombine, but all the other assets, both textures and models, are my own(except for a couple of id decals).
Models were created from scratch using Blender3D, and textures based on photosourced images or made from the ground up in photoshop. Normalmaps were rendered with Crazybump, handmade in photoshop/gimp or from models using Quake 4.
Some screen shots:





And download (about 35mb):
HERE

The map was compiled using Q4 1.3 and most probably will not run on older versions.

I have not yet added an addon file to the pak because custom CTF levels refuse to load in version 1.3. I understand that this issue is fixed in Q4Max, but I wanted the level to load normally in Q4.

The map plays well enough with the SABot mod I tested it with. I am assuming that eventually bots will be available and fully functioning in Q4Max, so spending time making the level bot friendly seemed sensible. A .botaas32 file is included.


All and any thoughts and ideas most welcome

[dichtfux]

Just gave it a try and noticed that it's the map with the window that allows you to see the other flag room you mentioned some time ago! Looks fun, it is really small, but 2vs2 should work well.

Maybe it's a bit tight in some places, but I'm not sure of that. Never played q4 CTF.

I really like the look of the map and the textures you made! (They don't seem to fit in some places though, like the stones at the flag, see the first screenshot that follows).

Problem I noticed: something is strange with the wall above the JP at the flags: you can jump on something and look into the wall. These images illustrate what I'm talking about:

The wall you can look through is marked in red, you stand on the blue line though there's no wall/ledge/whatever there (often happened to me when jumping down from flag):




Here I am standing on the blue line from the upper image, looking through the wall and into the architecture of the map:

[dnky]

Thanks for that....think I've fixed that now. I had managed to dupilcate a brush there which I think was causing the problem.

[pjw]

Cool map.

I quite like the tightness, and the overall grimy feel and the verticality of the whole thing too.

As a suggestion, I'd maybe tone down the saturation on the green side a bit. The orange looks fine, but the green, to me, looks a bit nuclear and slightly eye-searing in spots.

The only real problem I saw was with the flag window. If you move to the side down on the floor, so you're at an extreme angle, you get some sort of HOM-ish visual weirdness going on at the sides of the window (where the inside of the frame/glass would be), and if you actually jump up onto the window ledge, it's really easy to see ugliness to either side.

[dnky]

TY. Glad the tightness is ok for you....was thinking about having to separate the sides of the map to widen the centre area....which would have been a major rebuild. I had meant to have another go at the cubemap for the glass and completely forgot. It was my first attempt at creating a cube map, and had forgotten to try again

[dnky]

Updated the link above, hopefully a final beta. Tweaked a few visuals and squashed a couple of bugs.

[Kat]

Downloaded... back in a bit.

slightly better in terms of the crampedness so I'm guessing the minor tweaks worked ok. I still get a missing texture... as you run up the collapsed walkway immediately to your right behine the pipes is the missing texture - on both sides, the console doesn;t report anything though which is odd. Nice little map overall.

[zZCastleZz]

grabbed

Ill check it out in a little bit

[dnky]

The missing texture is odd, its a default texture and shows up in my clean install....hmmm

[zZCastleZz]

first impressions

Quake 4 already tends to feel more blurry than any other FPS I have played so having things like fog kind of makes that feel more noticeable. This is just a personal preference though. I love fog for single player stuff but not multiplayer really..

The level would generally look better if the flag rooms had the cool ceilings you have with the broken geometry near the center of the level. Right now the ceilings in both of the flag rooms seem kind of weak.

I didn't really look at technical things like portals and such. Seems to be a sound level as far as that is concerned. Even for quake 4 however I think this level feels a tad too cramped. but everything in quake 4 seems to be that way lol..

[dnky]

TY very much for looking, its tough to get much interest in Q4 map at all.
What you describe as fog I assume is the light flares from the windows, visual stuff like that is, I guess, a matter of taste. I hear what you say about the flag rooms and have worried about about that too. I wanted a contrast in style between the 'realism' of the warehouse area with the modelled geometry and the 'traditional' Quake Arena style bases. My thought was to link the themes together through the medium of my texture set. I am pretty happy, but maybe it doesnt work for everybody
The 'tightness' of the level, again is a personal choice I guess, although if I am honest I did over do this in the centre by changing my mind after the initial block out. I squeezed just about as much space there as I possibly can without losing the broken bridge bits which I have become attached too.
As I said before, many many thanks for looking, I appreciate it greatly.

[zZCastleZz]

sure np!

How there was one more thing that I saw and forgot to mention. You have some spots where the bricks are not horizontal like bricks should be. You might want to look into fixing that as it is a potentially jarring visual aspect since bricks on walls are almost never diagonal angles.

Look in the center of the level a bit and you should see what I mean.

[dnky]

Thanks.
Being the kind of person I am ( i.e. always believing I know best ), I nearly didnt take another look at the UVW mapping in that centre area. I am so glad you prompted me into doing that, Castle. Not only does it look better, but I had also inverted some of the texture maps on the original mesh...that's all fixed now and the normal map on that bricky texture works like it should too. Thanks for the push.
Going final (at least for Q4 1.3):
DOWNLOAD
When bot support for Q4 1.4 arrives I will most likely release an update.

[zZCastleZz]

np dude!
Good luck with the release ect ect..

hmm your holding back on your level release for the next patch that will have bot support? Interesting..
How far off is the possible release window for this patch?

[dnky]

Q4Max report they are nearly there and I make an assumption that Tinman will complete an SABot update to, as he produce an update for 1.4.1
The main reason for holding back a final final is with so few people playing on line, very few maps being uploaded onto servers, the only way for many to play Q4 is in offline mode, and the only way many mappers will get there maps played is against bots. Its almost like the only reason for producing maps for this engine is for one's portfolio.

[zZCastleZz]

Its almost like the only reason for producing maps for this engine is for one's portfolio.

this is true..

I enjoy working on the single player stuff a lot though. Quake 4 does have a lot of verity and potential for good single player sequences. however, I think that the days of the current single player model are coming to an end and need a new twist to them.

Current half life style linear path is great for basic story telling and the model itself is pretty simple. TBH the linear Half Life style of story telling only tends to fall apart when things become too complex.

However how long until ..

Room, hallway, Room, hallway... with a special scripted event becomes tedious and boring for even the average fan of first person shooters.

All half life 2 did was literally.. Focus on one thing at a time.

Introduce a one new element at a time. Each new area introduce another new element until you are up to 3 at once then start over with a lull sequence where its a puzzle or nothing happens at all.
Never have more than 3 things happen at one time..
Rinse repeat for all 20 hours of the game ><..

example:

1. Go down a hallway and introduce head crabs
2. Go into a room and find grunts attack head crabs
3. Go down a hallway fighting head crabs, grunts, and apache helicopter. Fall down into a hole into a cave and do a puzzle.

1. Go down a hallway and introduce Zombies
2. Go into a room and find turrets attacking Zombies
3. Go down a hallway fighting Zombies, turrets, and antlions. Figure out a puzzle to leave the area...

1. Go down a hallway and introduce teammates
2. Go into a room and find grunts attacking teammates
3. Go down a hallway with teammates, while fighting grunts, and walkers. Figure out a puzzle to leave the area...

1. Go down a hallway and introduce antlions
2. Go into a room and find grunts attacking antlions
3. Go down a hallway with antlions, while fighting grunts, and shooting rockets at flying bug copters. Figure out a puzzle to leave the area...

1. Go down a hallway and introduce a vehicle
2. Go into a room and find grunts attacking you while on your vehicle.
3. Go down a hallway with your vehicle while fighting grunts, and shooting rockets at flying bug copters. Figure out a puzzle to leave the area...

lol...
Quake 4 did try to follow a bit more in Valves concept of game play and flow but they apparently missed the point that even Valve has to work on its game play formula a little more right? lol..

First person shooters need to go away from the Half Life formula because it is getting too predictable.
Im more into the MMO formula these days.. Just make a giant freaking world and let me progress how and when I want to.. IMO it could be done a little more closely to the old style of level flow from the original quake and doom.

/sigh I don't know anymore.. It sucks to think that working on a community map is just for resume material.. Sucks even more when you already have resume material and just want to make something fun to play...

[dnky]

I have had this conversation a lot of late. When you look at the support and involvement in wow or even Runescape. A world with tasks, skills, quests, but no linear progression.
New prettier graphic does not make a tired formula better, just as striping out the pretty graphics in search of some elusive gameplay ideal does not lead to inovation.
Personally I want pretty and fun (heh, like my other half ), and something that from a design point of view will allow my imagination to run.