small in numbers or small in size?
you know, they had gky in their team for some time...
DOOM 3 expansion pack will include ctf..omfg (56K destroyer)
Grudge wrote:Epic may be technically competent, and there's nothing wrong with their technical artistery, but they lack all traces of creativety and creative vision. UT2004 reeks of pubescent generic sci-fi mediocrity. It's technically impeccable, but lacks any kind of soul.
Eh? Don't really know what you're talking about, but myself, pretty much my entire house, and loads of other people played UT2004 non-stop for ages, and got a lot more enjoyment out of it than any other multiplayer game for years. Q3's the last game that gave me a buzz like UT2004 did.
Solid game, plenty of content, good community grown up around it... a ready-made nest of content from UT2003 to carry over... the whole thing worked so well.
Soul and technical merits... don't really matter, the game is highly enjoyable and the scene is bubbling.
"Maybe you have some bird ideas. Maybe that’s the best you can do."
― Terry A. Davis
― Terry A. Davis
This is a huge understatement. It seems to me that you're missing the focus of id productions. Most of their revenue comes from engine sales.Foo wrote:Too small a development team, working on too advanced an engine, producing too little content, with too many things left incomplete or unsatisfying.
Also, adding people to a project is a sure fire way to delay its release. Small development teams work the best. However, seems to me that you're complaining about id software's DECISIONS while making Doom 3, not their productivity.
What you say is correct, but it doesn't have any relevence to my criticism of the game they produced. That truly doesn't matter to me when I walk out and buy a copy of Doom 3, does it? It's no consolation to me to be able to say "well, that was a waste of 30 quid, but I guess the good old id guys weren't really focusing on creating a good game for me to enjoy, they were trying to make an engine they could sell to other companies, so that makes it ok,.. I should in no way feel let down!"duffman91 wrote:This is a huge understatement. It seems to me that you're missing the focus of id productions. Most of their revenue comes from engine sales.Foo wrote:Too small a development team, working on too advanced an engine, producing too little content, with too many things left incomplete or unsatisfying.
Of course I am. Their productivity for such a small team was probably very good. Unfortunately it was still too small to produce a satisfying game, which is my core argument.Also, adding people to a project is a sure fire way to delay its release. Small development teams work the best. However, seems to me that you're complaining about id software's DECISIONS while making Doom 3, not their productivity.
"Maybe you have some bird ideas. Maybe that’s the best you can do."
― Terry A. Davis
― Terry A. Davis
HL2 is the most overrated game ever. At least D3 was able to hide its not so great AI in its cramped spaces, plus the enemies actually try to avoid your fire every once in awhile.
UT2k4 might have a lot of maps and content, but its still for noobs. They basically went back and redid a not so great game (ut2k3) and got away with it. How many other companies get a 2nd chance like that?
UT2k4 might have a lot of maps and content, but its still for noobs. They basically went back and redid a not so great game (ut2k3) and got away with it. How many other companies get a 2nd chance like that?
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stocktroll
- Posts: 1314
- Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2005 2:44 am
If you ask me, id did a big thing wrong with Doom 3. While they where thinking to themselves "lets make a game!" they were actually thinking "lets just take the next step in rendering".
Doom 3 looks great, UNDER IT ALL. Take away the low res textures and replace them with higher res ones, it looks fantastic. We have a PPL renderer in Quake 2 Evolved now, and with high res 32bit textures (double that of Doom 3) they look amazing. Things really do "come to life". But when your texture res is THAT low, things start to get "muddy". Angles dont look like angles anymore, they look like "messes" etc. Its NOT id's fault, its technology and most of all, hardware. 3 MINIMUM 512x512 texture passes AVERAGE per texture is very harsh on ram. And, when id brought doom 3 out last year, there were still people kidding themselves into thinking they could play it on a 1ghz machine with 256ram and a GF4. *BZZZZZZZT*.
Next problem, the models. But again, not id's fault, just hardware. In games like HL2, you draw 1 model, with maybe 1 shadow. That’s all. In Doom 3, you can have a scene with that one model, but he’s casting about 15 shadows.... Yeah, a 6k poly would look amazing here, but damn, think of your FPS. So, they lower the poly count on everything. But that a) Makes the models look fucking ugly, and B) makes lip syncing the most ugliest you have seen. Triangle mouths, anybody? Again, not id's fault, but more hardware catching up.
Another problem id had was a mix of the two above. To save space on the models memory, they mirrored the UV coords on model textures. Nice trick if your playing Quake 3, as you will see no difference other than a mirror image in the skin. BAD for Doom 3, because of the angles on the normal map. So things start looking VERY wrong. Take a look at the hands on the marine, hell, even that guy that gives you your PDA, take a look at his hands. Notice anything? What about the seem down the middle of everybody’s head, that’s because of the uv maps and maybe even the fact they never welded the models
If you honestly ask me, I think Doom 3 was released at the wrong time. For PC at least. Everybody is playing catch up now, which is good because it makes id look like they can do better than everybody else, but now, they have no other standard to reach for other than their own, and that’s not so great in the SP business TBH.
But, all in all, even with everything toned down so the game "runs", it still wont run on 9 our of 10 peoples machines "how they feel comfortable with". Which pretty much kicks most people in the teeth who want to play it online. Add that to the fact that its nothing new, more of a step backward, and the online you can pretty much kiss good bye.
Hopefully. And i do HOPE this works out. Doom 3 ROE will change things a bit. More maps, CTF made by Threewave, the guys that pretty much MADE CTF as we all know and love, and 8 players max now out the box, should change things. But its only gonna hit PC's harder, remember that.
Once again, i think that the way id has took away our loved custom skins is a joke. MP in Quake 2 is fun as fuck because you can put a clowns face on a bog standard marine and at the map change everybody will download it and see it. Not good if your a clown, but awesome if your in a clan. Doom 3 would of rocked with more clan skin/model customisation options... But no....
Doom 3 looks great, UNDER IT ALL. Take away the low res textures and replace them with higher res ones, it looks fantastic. We have a PPL renderer in Quake 2 Evolved now, and with high res 32bit textures (double that of Doom 3) they look amazing. Things really do "come to life". But when your texture res is THAT low, things start to get "muddy". Angles dont look like angles anymore, they look like "messes" etc. Its NOT id's fault, its technology and most of all, hardware. 3 MINIMUM 512x512 texture passes AVERAGE per texture is very harsh on ram. And, when id brought doom 3 out last year, there were still people kidding themselves into thinking they could play it on a 1ghz machine with 256ram and a GF4. *BZZZZZZZT*.
Next problem, the models. But again, not id's fault, just hardware. In games like HL2, you draw 1 model, with maybe 1 shadow. That’s all. In Doom 3, you can have a scene with that one model, but he’s casting about 15 shadows.... Yeah, a 6k poly would look amazing here, but damn, think of your FPS. So, they lower the poly count on everything. But that a) Makes the models look fucking ugly, and B) makes lip syncing the most ugliest you have seen. Triangle mouths, anybody? Again, not id's fault, but more hardware catching up.
Another problem id had was a mix of the two above. To save space on the models memory, they mirrored the UV coords on model textures. Nice trick if your playing Quake 3, as you will see no difference other than a mirror image in the skin. BAD for Doom 3, because of the angles on the normal map. So things start looking VERY wrong. Take a look at the hands on the marine, hell, even that guy that gives you your PDA, take a look at his hands. Notice anything? What about the seem down the middle of everybody’s head, that’s because of the uv maps and maybe even the fact they never welded the models
If you honestly ask me, I think Doom 3 was released at the wrong time. For PC at least. Everybody is playing catch up now, which is good because it makes id look like they can do better than everybody else, but now, they have no other standard to reach for other than their own, and that’s not so great in the SP business TBH.
But, all in all, even with everything toned down so the game "runs", it still wont run on 9 our of 10 peoples machines "how they feel comfortable with". Which pretty much kicks most people in the teeth who want to play it online. Add that to the fact that its nothing new, more of a step backward, and the online you can pretty much kiss good bye.
Hopefully. And i do HOPE this works out. Doom 3 ROE will change things a bit. More maps, CTF made by Threewave, the guys that pretty much MADE CTF as we all know and love, and 8 players max now out the box, should change things. But its only gonna hit PC's harder, remember that.
Once again, i think that the way id has took away our loved custom skins is a joke. MP in Quake 2 is fun as fuck because you can put a clowns face on a bog standard marine and at the map change everybody will download it and see it. Not good if your a clown, but awesome if your in a clan. Doom 3 would of rocked with more clan skin/model customisation options... But no....
The problem with Doom3 is that it feels "small". All of the environments are cramped, and there's never anything pretty to look at 'cos it's all grey and brown AGAIN. Plus the AI's retarded, the plot's incredibly predictable (remember how everyone went on and on about how they got a "real writer"?), and level design and enemy placement just plain sucks. The cinemas are unimpressive, and it's so fucking dark you can't see any of these 256mb of textures per room or whatever it's supposed to have.
Plus it's a real disappointment to fans of the original that there's these big introductions for each new (personality-free) monster, and then you waste it with two blasts of the shotgun and just carry on.
Halo 2 absolutely kicked the crap out of it. Hell, Halo 1 with the advanced shaders looks much more impressive, even without PPL.
Plus it's a real disappointment to fans of the original that there's these big introductions for each new (personality-free) monster, and then you waste it with two blasts of the shotgun and just carry on.
Halo 2 absolutely kicked the crap out of it. Hell, Halo 1 with the advanced shaders looks much more impressive, even without PPL.
Last edited by Geebs on Wed Mar 30, 2005 9:16 am, edited 1 time in total.
hehe... it was just the same with tomb raider 5 (or was it 6) ??? ...Geebs wrote:remember how everyone went on and on about how they got a "real writer"
they supposedly tried to make everything new... but then it was just the same crappy movement and jumping all over again.
doom3:
the few large, open scenes in doom3 were awesome though! the entrance to hell was kickass, so was the part with those flying souls!
well... let's see what quake 4 holds for us.
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Freakaloin
- Posts: 10620
- Joined: Tue May 07, 2002 7:00 am
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Freakaloin
- Posts: 10620
- Joined: Tue May 07, 2002 7:00 am