Scientists 'delete' a single memory from rats

Post by **tnf** » Sat Mar 17, 2007 3:37 am

This is kind of interesting...
http://www.nature.com/news/2007/070305/ ... 05-17.html

"A single, specific memory has been wiped from the brains of rats, leaving other recollections intact."

Any human uses are obviously a long, long, long way off...but think of the potential.

Post by **Scourge** » Sat Mar 17, 2007 3:40 am

It could have some good uses removing traumatic memories and such. But it could also have some darker uses.

Post by **tnf** » Sat Mar 17, 2007 3:41 am

Kracus could give it to the women he had sex with maybe.

I say that because I know he's reading the forums now.

hello.

Post by **Scourge** » Sat Mar 17, 2007 3:42 am

That could prevent a lot of suicides.

Post by **Transient** » Sat Mar 17, 2007 4:27 am

Hey, this type of thing was addressed in an episode of Stargate - SG1 in season 8ish or something. Anyone ever watch that show?

Post by **Scourge** » Sat Mar 17, 2007 4:28 am

I missed a lot of the last few seasons.

Post by **Transient** » Sat Mar 17, 2007 4:33 am

Fury stopped watching when O'Niell left the cast at the end of season 8, but I kept watching. The new guy who took his place is awesome. He played Crichton on Farscape, and Aeryn Sun (who was also on Farscape) also joined the crew. Fucking awesome shows, both of them.

Post by **feedback** » Sat Mar 17, 2007 4:39 am

eternal sunshine of the spotless mind

Post by **Tsakali_** » Sat Mar 17, 2007 4:43 am

Post by **Underpants?** » Sat Mar 17, 2007 4:58 am

wonder if and how memory alters personality

Post by **Scourge** » Sat Mar 17, 2007 5:07 am

It does. People change after certain events. If they were not able to remember them, there might not be any change. I say might because I can't speak for other people. But, I've had significant changes in life/personality that wouldn't be present without certain memories.

Post by **Massive Quasars** » Sat Mar 17, 2007 5:14 am

Memory destruction affects identity, and could potentially amount to self-destruction of a degree. I would be least comfortable destroying memories, I'd probably opt to weaken their emotional impact if they were particularly traumatizing. Propranol is used with PTSD sufferers to do just that, not sure it's approved for that use yet but it's likely prescribed off-label in the meantime (guess).

Post by **CaseDogg** » Sat Mar 17, 2007 5:49 am

everything you own in a box to the left.

Post by **seremtan** » Sat Mar 17, 2007 8:53 am

Scourge wrote:It could have some good uses removing traumatic memories and such. But it could also have some darker uses.

how is that a good use? experience - good and bad - is a how a person grows. it's not like physical pain, that you can do without

personally i don't like the idea of techniques that can make what currently are merely the fantasies of social engineers into reality, the idea that we can 'make people better' by tinkering with their brains/souls. if those fantasies became reality, we could probably kiss what's left of our already eroded freedom goodbye

Post by **Grudge** » Sat Mar 17, 2007 9:26 am

Yes, as has been previously noted, selective memory removal will affect the personality.

I'm sure certain individuals would want to have this done to them regardless though.

There is no "soul" btw.

Post by **Transient** » Sat Mar 17, 2007 11:47 am

Scourge wrote:It does. People change after certain events. If they were not able to remember them, there might not be any change. I say might because I can't speak for other people. But, I've had significant changes in life/personality that wouldn't be present without certain memories.

It makes me curious to know whether conditioning a person and then erasing all memory of the conditioning will actually remove the behavior it manifests.

Post by **seremtan** » Sat Mar 17, 2007 12:23 pm

Grudge wrote:There is no "soul" btw.

there is however such a thing as a "metaphor" btw cocks

Post by **seremtan** » Sat Mar 17, 2007 12:25 pm

Transient wrote:
Scourge wrote:It does. People change after certain events. If they were not able to remember them, there might not be any change. I say might because I can't speak for other people. But, I've had significant changes in life/personality that wouldn't be present without certain memories.
It makes me curious to know whether conditioning a person and then erasing all memory of the conditioning will actually remove the behavior it manifests.

short answer: no. a great deal of human conditioning occurs during infanthood, and later we forget the events that provided that conditioning, but it's still there

long answer: ask a haitian

Post by **Grudge** » Sat Mar 17, 2007 2:27 pm

seremtan wrote:
Grudge wrote:There is no "soul" btw.
there is however such a thing as a "metaphor" btw cocks

The term carries too much religous/cultural baggage to be useful as a metaphor IMO.

Post by **werldhed** » Sat Mar 17, 2007 3:31 pm

I saw a piece about this the other day... almost posted it myself. :icon26:

Haven't had the chance to read the paper, though. Seems pretty cool nonetheless...

Post by **plained** » Sat Mar 17, 2007 3:47 pm

i can think of much better things to do

Post by **Massive Quasars** » Sat Mar 17, 2007 3:51 pm

seremtan wrote:how is that a good use? experience - good and bad - is a how a person grows. it's not like physical pain, that you can do without

Some people obsess over experience(s) to the detriment of their quality of life, de-emphasizing or destroying the source of their obsession (if it's narrow and trivial, a difficult judgment granted) might do them some appreciable good. Again I would much rather see a memory's emotional impact weakened than the memory destroyed outright, but the option remains, one would imagine.

personally i don't like the idea of techniques that can make what currently are merely the fantasies of social engineers into reality, the idea that we can 'make people better' by tinkering with their brains/souls. if those fantasies became reality, we could probably kiss what's left of our already eroded freedom goodbye

I can't speak for a future with these sorts of technologies in the broader sense, but if we can live reliably sustainably better than well, no established dogma or ideology need obstruct us to that end.

Post by **Scourge** » Sat Mar 17, 2007 4:07 pm

seremtan wrote:
Scourge wrote:It could have some good uses removing traumatic memories and such. But it could also have some darker uses.
how is that a good use? experience - good and bad - is a how a person grows. it's not like physical pain, that you can do without

personally i don't like the idea of techniques that can make what currently are merely the fantasies of social engineers into reality, the idea that we can 'make people better' by tinkering with their brains/souls. if those fantasies became reality, we could probably kiss what's left of our already eroded freedom goodbye

I have no doubt that it would probably be abused and misused. That's where the could comes in. I also agree that we probably shouldn't fuck with peoples brains in that sense. I'm just saying that it could be used to help people that have been severely traumatized and can't function. But I'm also not naive enough to believe that is all it would be used for.

Post by **Foo** » Sat Mar 17, 2007 4:16 pm

Scourge wrote:I also agree that we probably shouldn't fuck with peoples brains in that sense.

This is never, ever an option because the cliche 'if we don't do it someone else will' is true in every sense. See nuclear proliferation for ample evidence of the unfortunate necessity of the advancement of, well, everything.

Post by **Scourge** » Sat Mar 17, 2007 4:23 pm

That is true, someone else will. But I still believe it's a baaaaad idea in most cases.