What's more important

[Ryoki]

Who you are or what you do?

And no smartass answers like 'it's who you do', ok? I'm looking for some serious answers here, give me universal truths, give me wisdom.

[phantasmagoria]

eh?

[SplishSplash]

Isn't who you are kind of defined by what you do?

[MKJ]

or vice versa, splish

[Ryoki]

Yes, but let's pretend it's not.

[Giraffe }{unter]

I believe what you do makes who you are. I am generally a nice easygoing person who tries to help far to many people.

But at work the "What I Do" I am a relentless bastard who is constantly getting on peoples case for doing things they are not supposed to.

My wife recently started working for a department that referrs to me as "hitler" because I constantly repremand them for installing Hotbar and incredimail etc.... Now that people get to know me they realize I'm not the bastard I am at work, unless they fuck up

[SplishSplash]

or vice versa, splish

I can influence what I do, but I have no choice about who I am.

[MKJ]

well you do as you are as much as you are what you do, innit?

[Ryoki]

Ah, philosophy... *rubs hands* ... the favoured pasttime of the Ancient Greeks, the mother of critical & logical independant thought, the mating call of the Julios. Excellent.

[SplishSplash]

well you do as you are as much as you are what you do, innit?

no i don't think so

[plained]

i'd guess maybe it depends on how much a person cares about how others percieve them.


dunno

[Ryoki]

Surely your sense of self contributes to what you do. If you're a goatherder, chances are you're probably not gonna paint, knowhatimean?

[R00k]

These things are inextricably linked, but I think everything you do in earnest is just a microcosm of who you are.

What you do doesn't determine who you are, it only has a causal effect on others' perceptions of who you are, which can be a different definition entirely.

Who you are to yourself is what determines who you are to others, and in that sense, is the most important of all.

[Pext]

or vice versa, splish

I can influence what I do, but I have no choice about who I am.

wrong. the input you get will form your self,; thus, if you act to get the kind input you want, you can have an implicit effect on your self.

clearification: input is not only external information but as well percieved thaughts; thought-triggers that are either induced priorly or through uncontrolled triggering.

[Ryoki]

Who you are to yourself is what determines who you are to others, and in that sense, is the most important of all.

Thanks.

[Pext]

he's right ~ but in fact, it is not who you 'are' that determines what others think of you but mostly it is what you think of what you are as this is what makes you behave the way you behave.

[Pext]

take an example:

if you walk down the street and you notice everyone is looking at you you could either think

- i must look strange to them

- whoa. i'm sexy

depending on what you think, you'll act differently.

[SplishSplash]

But without the perception of others it just wouldn't matter who we are. (see 'Falling tree' zen riddle)

[Jackal]

It's who you are.

[MKJ]

i think you first have to define what sepcifies as "being" before you can asnwer the question

is what you are how you look upon yourself or how others look at you? how you do define the "who" in the question?
e.g. we all say kracus is a dork for what he does - or for what he says he does - while in real life he might not be a dork, for he doesnt do as he says.
or, he does what he says in real life to fit in and therefore doesnt do as he is. but that too defines who he is, since he does what he isnt.

see your local tibetian monk for more details

[Jackal]

But without the perception of others it just wouldn't matter who we are. (see 'Falling tree' zen riddle)

Sweet god, that's a disturbing way of thinking.

[DiscoDave]

Although it varies from person to person, what you do could define what kind of person you are. My own beleif would be that who you are is more important.

[Pext]

splish: true ~ there's no contradiction here.

in fact, both directions are right. as a simple catchphrase: you influence your sourrounding and your sourrinding influences you. - and - you influence yourself and your sourrounding influences itself.

[SplishSplash]

I think you first have to realize that there is no specific "YOU".

"You" is just a label for your body and it's past actions. As someone who has taken antidepressants for several months now I can tell you that there is no constant "I".

At least for me there isn't. Personality is more of a liquid that is kept in different jars, and fluctuates between those jars. The jars give it shape, and that shape is what others perceive.
The jars can be described as 'moods' but to be honest i think a more proper definition would be 'chemical cocktails'.

[R00k]

splish: true ~ there's no contradiction here.

in fact, both directions are right. as a simple catchphrase: you influence your sourrounding and your sourrinding influences you. - and - you influence yourself and your sourrounding influences itself.

Even the way your environment affects you is controlled by who you are; i.e. how you interpret those influences and their meanings. For instance, a person who has a constant victimization disorder will be affected by environment differently from someone who does not.

"There is also purpose in life which is almost barren of both creation and enjoyment and which admits of but one possibility of high moral behavior: namely, in man's attitude to his existence, an existence restricted by external forces."

"Everything can be taken from a man but ...the last of the human freedoms - to choose
one's attitude in any given set of circumstances, to choose one's own way."

-Viktor Frankl, Man's Search for Meaning