http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... de+warrior
:icon28:
Those who play WoW...
I've already seen that. My mage is about to turn 60 and the gear all seems so unimpressive. The only mage gear I've seen that gave me a wood was the High Warlord's pvp staff.r0n1n wrote:Nice damage output. However, it only proves how much the game is tilted towards melee classes in terms of itemization.
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Mr.Magnetichead
- Posts: 2001
- Joined: Thu Nov 01, 2001 8:00 am
This is why I hate MMOs that rely on loot to make players more powerful. I prefer it when skill plays a more important role.
This game seems to be leaning in the direction of skill:
http://www.tcos.com/
This game seems to be leaning in the direction of skill:
http://www.tcos.com/
Last edited by Transient on Wed Feb 08, 2006 2:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Freakaloin
- Posts: 10620
- Joined: Tue May 07, 2002 7:00 am
A caster that's rank 14 can only dream about dishing out half of the damage that he is on a consistant basis.Mr.Magnetichead wrote:In all fairness he is fucking rank 14 and is wearing the best gear in the entire game. He's the elite of the elite PVPer wise.
I think you hit the nail on the head. It makes me glad that I stopped playing the game back in October. At the time it was already seemingly obvious that the game was headed in that direction.Transient wrote:This is why I hate MMOs that rely on loot to make players more powerful. I prefer it when skill plays a more important role.
Mr.Magnetichead wrote:In all fairness he is fucking rank 14 and is wearing the best gear in the entire game. He's the elite of the elite PVPer wise.
Hes rank 14 because he has more time than everyone else on his server..
[size=75][i]I once had a glass of milk.
It curdled, and then I couldn't drink it. So I mixed it with some water, and it was alright again.
I am now sick.
[/i][/size]
[img]http://img162.imageshack.us/img162/3631/171164665735hk8.png[/img]
It curdled, and then I couldn't drink it. So I mixed it with some water, and it was alright again.
I am now sick.
[/i][/size]
[img]http://img162.imageshack.us/img162/3631/171164665735hk8.png[/img]
This is the reason I enjoy Blizzard games. I like striving for uber gear. I don't feel that it makes skill any less important but it does differentiate two players of similar skill. It does suck that you have to devote a lot of time to the game to be good but those people should be better.Transient wrote:This is why I hate MMOs that rely on loot to make players more powerful. I prefer it when skill plays a more important role.
This game seems to be leaning in the direction of skill:
http://www.tcos.com/
The dude was in a PvP battleground. If the alliance had come up with some sort of strategy they could have stopped him easily, but instead they chose to attack one by one and die. Couldn't someone have trapped/polymorphed him and then a few rogues could have jumped him trying to keep him stunned?
Last edited by bitWISE on Wed Feb 08, 2006 8:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
By default I would think the same, but there is an article on ggl talking about how pvp wow could be organized into competitive gaming.Grudge wrote:lol, anyone expecting "fairness" and competitive gameplay in a MMO is a fucking retard
http://ggl.com/news.php?NewsId=2223
"Great read MrE, can't wait for the next installment!
My past as a Quake player is on the dingy with Fredo. WoW is the most captivating game I've played and is inches away from being THE most organized-competitive video game on the planet.
The PVP is fiercely fast and with 5.5 million copies sold it makes Counter-Strike's active player base look like Daikatana.
Do not underestimate Blizzard's ability to make an MMO the dominant organized competitive gaming title -- it will come like a thief in the night.
When it does and you realize you've missed the boat, go seek out a copy at your local retailer, install it, and watch old Quakers like me, Handiman, Orion, Quaint, Cactus, Toxic, et al. standing atop a heap of corpses in the arena with the masses cheering our name... 'Dominion', 'Dominion' 'Dominion'...
Carmac will be there.
[Dominion] Unholy
60 Undead Mage
Mug'Thol"
I dont know though, if you take away movement, aim, timing, what skill is there other then target selection and group rape of an opponent? I dont play the game so someone who does, enlighten me on how there is skill in this and similar games.
If you want to spend 20 hours camping a spot for one uber item, fine, you earned your power. But someone should be able to be just as effective combat-wise as you by using their brain and practicing.bitWISE wrote:This is the reason I enjoy Blizzard games. I like striving for uber gear. I don't feel that it makes skill any less important but it does differentiate two players of similar skill. It does suck that you have to devote a lot of time to the game to be good but those people should be better.
The dude was in a PvP battleground. If the alliance had come up with some sort of strategy they could have stopped him easily, but instead they chose to attack one by one and die. Couldn't someone have trapped/polymorphed him and then a few rogues could have jumped him trying to keep him stunned?
I saw all too often people playing D2 who were complete tools, but because they did countless magic runs, they were able to wipe the floor with anyone who opposed them, regardless of skill.
This is why I like City of Heroes/Villains. There's absolutely no loot whatsoever, meaning your prowess in PvP is based SOLELY on skill. In fact, whenever you enter a PvP area, you are automatically buffed/nerfed to a specific level so that everyone in the zone is fairly matched.
How do the fighting mechanics work?Transient wrote:If you want to spend 20 hours camping a spot for one uber item, fine, you earned your power. But someone should be able to be just as effective combat-wise as you by using their brain and practicing.bitWISE wrote:This is the reason I enjoy Blizzard games. I like striving for uber gear. I don't feel that it makes skill any less important but it does differentiate two players of similar skill. It does suck that you have to devote a lot of time to the game to be good but those people should be better.
The dude was in a PvP battleground. If the alliance had come up with some sort of strategy they could have stopped him easily, but instead they chose to attack one by one and die. Couldn't someone have trapped/polymorphed him and then a few rogues could have jumped him trying to keep him stunned?
I saw all too often people playing D2 who were complete tools, but because they did countless magic runs, they were able to wipe the floor with anyone who opposed them, regardless of skill.
This is why I like City of Heroes/Villains. There's absolutely no loot whatsoever, meaning your prowess in PvP is based SOLELY on skill. In fact, whenever you enter a PvP area, you are automatically buffed/nerfed to a specific level so that everyone in the zone is fairly matched.
In wow it would be utterly boring to have everyone on the same playing field. When it came to two mages fighting the entire battle would come down to who was a milisecond faster at clicking Counterspell. The rest of the battle would be meaningless because otherwise they have exactly the same spells and abilities. After losing a single fight you would know the winning strategy.
I have to say, Wow requires a lot more skill than it's given credit for. It's a different kind of skill set than FPS, but it's silly to expect any different.
I love the video in the original post but you have to realize that it's not just gear that's doing that. You'll see at the beginning of the video how many potions/buffs he's using. He dies and they're all gone. That, and he's got a load of people supporting him. Shamans throwing down all sorts of totems. Priests & Druids healing / dispelling. If anything, it shows how powerful teamwork can be.
I love the video in the original post but you have to realize that it's not just gear that's doing that. You'll see at the beginning of the video how many potions/buffs he's using. He dies and they're all gone. That, and he's got a load of people supporting him. Shamans throwing down all sorts of totems. Priests & Druids healing / dispelling. If anything, it shows how powerful teamwork can be.
Every even level you gain a new power. Depending on the type of character you have, at a high level you will have over a dozen powers to use in combat. The "fighter" types will have half a dozen different attacks, plus a few defensive powers. The "mage" types will have half a dozen attacks and half a dozen crowd control powers. The "cleric" types will have half a dozen attacks plus half a dozen party buff/enemy debuff powers, etc. So there are plenty of choices about which power to use, and in a large fight, there are plenty of targets to choose from.bitWISE wrote:How do the fighting mechanics work?
When I say the playing field is levelled, what I mean is that everyone is set at a specific level. For instance, Siren's Call is a level 30 PvP zone, so if you're 27 when you enter, you will be given a boost to your HP as if you were level 30. You don't gain new powers/abilities, though. If you were 40 and entered the zone, you'd have your HP reduced to what it would be at level 30 and would lose all powers you gained after that level. Your chance of hitting something is modified by their level in comparison to you, so since everyone is the same level here, everyone has an even chance of hitting each other (before you take into account modifications people make to their powers to boost accuracy and whatnot).
Each attack in the game can be enhanced as you level up, which further diversifies how you can play your character and what your role in combat will be. For instance, a "cleric" type can focus on enhancing his/her attacks more heavily than buffs.
You have a choice but if you don't choose the most powerful path I don't see how you could win.Transient wrote:Every even level you gain a new power. Depending on the type of character you have, at a high level you will have over a dozen powers to use in combat. The "fighter" types will have half a dozen different attacks, plus a few defensive powers. The "mage" types will have half a dozen attacks and half a dozen crowd control powers. The "cleric" types will have half a dozen attacks plus half a dozen party buff/enemy debuff powers, etc. So there are plenty of choices about which power to use, and in a large fight, there are plenty of targets to choose from.bitWISE wrote:How do the fighting mechanics work?
When I say the playing field is levelled, what I mean is that everyone is set at a specific level. For instance, Siren's Call is a level 30 PvP zone, so if you're 27 when you enter, you will be given a boost to your HP as if you were level 30. You don't gain new powers/abilities, though. If you were 40 and entered the zone, you'd have your HP reduced to what it would be at level 30 and would lose all powers you gained after that level. Your chance of hitting something is modified by their level in comparison to you, so since everyone is the same level here, everyone has an even chance of hitting each other (before you take into account modifications people make to their powers to boost accuracy and whatnot).
Each attack in the game can be enhanced as you level up, which further diversifies how you can play your character and what your role in combat will be. For instance, a "cleric" type can focus on enhancing his/her attacks more heavily than buffs.
Items in D2 let you create all sorts of crazy characters who were still powerful. It was actually possible to create a barbarian who could shout at people for 5k damage. I also liked the way D2 let you choose where to put stat points and skill points. Giving everyone the same stats and skills makes item whoring even more important as a means to differentiate yourself.
Not as much as you may think. It may be more straightforward for the "fighters", but the "mages" and especially the "clerics" have lots of room to personalize their builds and still be effective.bitWISE wrote:You have a choice but if you don't choose the most powerful path I don't see how you could win.
For instance, a melee character could opt for 5 slow, heavy attacks. Or he could go with 3 weaker, but faster recharging attacks. Some or all of the attacks could be the same ones, just enhanced differently to make them recharge faster. Damage output would be relatively similar, but the feel of the character would change somewhat.
In a 1-on-1 fight, you're right. Whoever has the most optimal build will have a greater chance. But in a team, your skill, teamwork, and the way you built your character all come into play to a greater degree. And CoH/CoV focus on the team PvP experience.