Ah, the beauty of posting at (nearly) the same time.
tnf wrote:The fact is that kids cannot do many of the basic things that students could do years ago.
I'm not under the impression the preceding generations are that much smarter, merely that they've had time to pick up and assimilate the little factoids that make you look so bright in board games. It could very well be different on the other side of the Big Pond, of course.
I would argue that kids today are a lot smarter in general as they have much better access to information, even if it’s irrelevant information.
People who are inclined towards knowledge can now use Google and Wikipedia to find information a million times faster, then going to a library or asking their teachers or parents. Also the accuracy of information has generally improved and science has been better refined.
BlueGene wrote:I would argue that kids today are a lot smarter in general as they have much better access to information, even if it’s irrelevant information.
People who are inclined towards knowledge can now use Google and Wikipedia to find information a million times faster, then going to a library or asking their teachers or parents. Also the accuracy of information has generally improved and science has been better refined.
there's a difference between having knowledge, and being smart.
There's also the issue of being wise, which is distinct from both of these.
BlueGene wrote:I would argue that kids today are a lot smarter in general as they have much better access to information, even if it’s irrelevant information.
Without some very nuanced qualifications, that just doesn't follow.
Perhaps but it’s only through knowledge or information that people become smart, unless of course they are some how gifted. But we are talking in general, as a result of knowledge people generally become smarter, sometimes even wiser.
Look at the internet and forums; 15 years ago we would not be having this discussion. We would have to invite friends over and even then these friends would only be from a certain part of the world. Their view will me much more narrow then getting people all across the world and having a written discussion on a specific topic at any time it’s convenient.
Access to information doesn’t make us smarter but it does provide the means for us to become smarter, I should have worded it better.
If anything, I'd say video games may lead to a higher IQ because of enhanced spatial visualization, which improves science, math, and mechanical abilities. Goddamn school system is out of date, but even if theres a reform I'll bet it would still be dull as hell. Imagine learning addition and subtraction by timing armors, or learning about King Louis XIV and absolutism by playing an RTS. That right there is the type of shit you remember. It's the closest thing to living it. I might have bothered showing up then.
BlueGene wrote:
Access to information doesn’t make us smarter but it does provide the means for us to become smarter, I should have worded it better.
Possibly, depending on what one means by 'smarter'. But without the requisite motivation and intellectual discipline, all that access amounts to exactly jack shit.
Well, you're welcome to come to one of my classes of 16 year old kids who can't solve F=ma if I give them "a" and "F". In our state, basic algebra skills have been abandoned in favor of group and project oriented work. NOt saying this is all bad, but there is no balance. In elementary schools, students are not taught phonics - they are taught sight-recognition for vocabulary. I'm talking about all the basic skills that are the essential foundation of EVERYTHING in the academic and professional/technical realms. I never said that students and young people in general today aren't proficient in any useful skills - but the balance isn't there in many of the education systems I've studied. Obviously, I can only speak firsthand for the ones I've taught in.
But I've never meant to come across as trying to demean the collective intelligence or capabalities of my students. My point, again, has been frustration with a system that is short-changing them and the abilities they do have.
DooMer wrote:If anything, I'd say video games may lead to a higher IQ because of enhanced spatial visualization, which improves science, math, and mechanical abilities. Goddamn school system is out of date, but even if theres a reform I'll bet it would still be dull as hell. Imagine learning addition and subtraction by timing armors, or learning about King Louis XIV and absolutism by playing an RTS. That right there is the type of shit you remember. It's the closest thing to living it. I might have bothered showing up then.
Definitely in some aspects, people who play quake know this. Yeah I would agree making it more appealing while including relevant academic information is the way to go. :icon14:
I'm not commenting or pointing out tnf or anyone else, just saying in general.
DooMer wrote:If anything, I'd say video games may lead to a higher IQ because of enhanced spatial visualization, which improves science, math, and mechanical abilities. Goddamn school system is out of date, but even if theres a reform I'll bet it would still be dull as hell. Imagine learning addition and subtraction by timing armors, or learning about King Louis XIV and absolutism by playing an RTS. That right there is the type of shit you remember. It's the closest thing to living it. I might have bothered showing up then.
hey i learned a lot of earths history through civilization1 back in the day (i was a wee kid back then but i always read the civilopedia whenever :icon32: )
ek wrote:There is no, the answer is "X" beside the obvious "Y". When the answer is Y and everything else is wrong. The question tnf asked was not complex or did not withhold any information you might need in order to answer his particular question. You just fucked it up and got it wrong.
quite true, but at least he didn't say the big dipper or mars. :icon27:
man your kids are fucking retards. I bet they can't name every planet in the solar system either. I bet the don't even know what causes seasons. Bah fucking normal people, what use are they. Morons.
I don't know how it got this way, but in the US, you learn absolutely fuck all until you get to college. For Americans, if they didn't go to college (and had no other worthwhile experience to substitute for it) then they're idiots incapable of adult reasoning. In other 1st world countries, most people learn a lot of things by the time they graduate highschool, and they study very hard during that time. Not going to college outside of America isn't nearly as indicative of being an idiot.
tnf wrote:Asked my freshmen this on a quiz yesterday. We aren't studying the subject, but I wanted some quick and obvious feedback to give to administration about the overall lack of education these kids show up to high school with.
75% missed the question. Answers ranged from Mars to the Big Dipper to "why are you asking us questions about stuff you don't teach us?"
Also tried a question I heard another teacher had used somewhere -
"Is there gravity on the moon? If you say no, explain what allowed astronauts to avoid floating off the moon's surface."
I got the answer I was looking for - "No gravity. Astronauts stayed on the moon because they wore really heavy spacesuits."
had to share this
asked my girl this very question in bed the other night. She paused, looked directly at me and said "the moon?" My laughter woke up the god damn dogs and set them off, to which she said "oh great, now you've got them laughing at me too." And guess who gets IP banned from the muffserver for the rest of the week? :icon33:
I am not arguing the fact that tnf's students didnt know the answer, but some of the arguments raised in this thread, primarily about how the question was asked and the "technicalites" of the answer. Hence my post, there are no technicalities, there is only one answer.
ek wrote:There is no, the answer is "X" beside the obvious "Y". When the answer is Y and everything else is wrong. The question tnf asked was not complex or did not withhold any information you might need in order to answer his particular question. You just fucked it up and got it wrong.
quite true, but at least he didn't say the big dipper or mars. :icon27:
man your kids are fucking retards. I bet they can't name every planet in the solar system either. I bet the don't even know what causes seasons. Bah fucking normal people, what use are they. Morons.
Yes, they know what causes the seasons. No, they aren't trained to really stop and think about questions before they answer them.
And to prevent further disgruntlement and confusion, I'm putting this out of its misery.
:icon33:
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