Mikeysoft Intardnet Exploiter

[dmmh]

IE Developer toolbar (also works from IE 5.5 and upwards): http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/deta ... laylang=en

[o'dium]

Doesn't work on illegal versions of windows...?

[dnoyc]

yes it does.

[+JuggerNaut+]

exploiter indeed

[Geebs]

Workaround: Mozilla Firefox

[bitWISE]

I like it so far. Seems to be much quicker than FF.

[+JuggerNaut+]

guess you missed the part that says beta.

bugs are one thing, exploits another.

[+JuggerNaut+]

also, i was posting as a heads up, not a bash since i'm also checking it out. lol you mods crack me up. one down, one to go.

[+JuggerNaut+]

you're the one crying about my post :icon23: :icon10:

[Geebs]

yeah, speedy as hell with everything

Yeah, IE renders pages incorrectly faster than any other browser out there

[Geebs]

1) write validated CSS
2) watch it render wrongly, even in quirksmode.

[Geebs]

More explicitly, try right aligning an area. Try specifying an area with a background colour without putting singlewhitepixel.gif in it and watch the dimensions go wrong. Try floating an image in a text area with a coloured background. Try using text padding. Try fucking ANYTHING apart from a nested table layout.

These are simple cartesian definitions which have been around since BBC BASIC, and IE can't just do what it's told, when EVERY other browser (apart from Safari) can/

[Geebs]

so you're saying you cant produce and are going on a past assumption?

engrish much?

[Tormentius]

These are simple cartesian definitions which have been around since BBC BASIC, and IE can't just do what it's told, when EVERY other browser (apart from Safari) can/

Its more CSS-compliant than IE6 so its somewhat of an improvement. Besides, if a dev isn't coding and testing against IE to ensure pages load correctly then that dev is incompetent. Even though FF is gaining in marketshare, it's still wise to make sure CSS works correctly on the world's dominant browser. The same goes for lazy devs who only test against IE and not the other browsers.

[Geebs]

These are simple cartesian definitions which have been around since BBC BASIC, and IE can't just do what it's told, when EVERY other browser (apart from Safari) can/

it's still wise to make sure CSS works correctly on the world's dominant browser

....so why don't they? *rimshot*

[Foo]

The fewer people cater to IE's crappy peculiarities, the greater the pressure on MS to correct them.

Not developing with IE in mind is lax, and in a professional environment where IE is used it's obviously not clever. However for the rest of us normies developing websites... fuck ie compatability.

[Tormentius]

....so why don't they? *rimshot*

Heh. I agree that MS should be fully standards-compliant but unfortunately, that isn't the case. Testing against multiple browsers is the solutions thats left.

[Tormentius]

fuck ie compatability.

You aren't "pressuring" MS by doing this, you're only irritating site visitors (who won't come back). MS needs to be pressured by influential organizations at a much higher level in order for change to occur IMO.

[Geebs]

so you're saying you cant produce and are going on a past assumption?

engrish much?

correct conjugation, try again.

Nerds like you need to realise that if someone else doesn't know what the fuck you're talking about it doesn't mean you're smarter than them, it means you wrote nonspecific gibberish.

I don't know where you're getting "assumption" from. I have experience of writing (and this means hand coding, 'cos indesign is pretty crap for everything apart from photoshop integration and managing links) logically laid out, validated css, which works fine on mozilla variants and opera, and then adding series of different and sometimes mutually exclusive dirty hacks to get around bugs in IE5 for windows, IE6 for windows, IE 5 for mac, and Safari. Pages which display correctly in IE5 for windows display incorrectly in IE6 and vice versa. Scroll bars appear at random even when they're told not to. IE5 is actually more accurate at rendering validated css than 6.

These are extremely well known problems. It's not about whether I can code round them, it's whether I should HAVE to. Denying all of the above in the face of the opinion of every web developer (not including myself here) ever just makes you a moron.

[Geebs]

CSS, not html

Are you telling me you LIKE coding for quirks?

[Geebs]

Here's a quicky for you: what proportion of PCs worldwide are running XP?

[Foo]

fuck ie compatability.

You aren't "pressuring" MS by doing this, you're only irritating site visitors (who won't come back). MS needs to be pressured by influential organizations at a much higher level in order for change to occur IMO.

I don't agree. The Firefox/Opera sucesses have come from a general movement away from IE amongst the more computer-savvy surfers, and in turn this has prompted MS to start improving IE once more after doing jack shit with it for years.

None of the standards bodies on the web have any true power, they're mere advisories. MS does, however, have an interest in having as much of the surfer population as it can using its own browser.

[Geebs]

how about answering my question first before we go off on a tangent

Picture floating in text in a box with a coloured background is still broken. I really can't be arsed to break a bunch of code in IE6 all over again to test the rest though.

[blakjack]

and in turn this has prompted MS to start improving IE once more after doing jack shit with it for years.

i dont think ms have been pressured into anything, i think they know that in terms of browser functionality they have fallen behind but can rely on market dominance and marketing to hold on whilst they sit on ie7 for a vista release.

[Geebs]

actually, it fails acid2 quite a lot worse than firefox and opera do