Politics / Energy question

Post by **Foo** » Thu Feb 02, 2006 1:37 am

One thing that confuses me about the whole dependency on oil thing and the struggles going on over it - There are lots of potential paths for renewable or at least more efficient fuels yet not one government from the tens of developed nations which could invest heavily in developing them seems interested in doing so.

After all, there seems to be an awful lot riding on the oil crisis and coming shortages, but all the talk seems to center around spinning out the existing supplies rather than moving to an entirely different source.

?

Post by **Nightshade** » Thu Feb 02, 2006 1:39 am

How much money do you think the oil companies stand to lose if renewable resources/alternative fuels are developed? A SHITLOAD.
In the US, they have ENORMOUS political influence, and therefore this reasearch and development is pretty much done at their pace.

Post by **Foo** » Thu Feb 02, 2006 1:42 am

Right. Hence I can derive from that some insight into the hesitance of certain nations to move to alternative sources, but that creates an even bigger opportunity for nations not so closely bound to oil companies.

There was some mention of a Chinese(?) Fusion Reactor in development which hinted it was further along than any other, but it seems a far way from the kind of leaps-and-bounds-ahead state you could expect to see from a nation making renewable energy as a whole as a high priority.

Post by **R00k** » Thu Feb 02, 2006 1:46 am

The financial aspect is one part of it - a big part.

But also, just imagine for a second if the US put all their efforts into renewable energy sources. All of the jets, tanks, ships and choppers in the world run off of oil. What would happen if we left all of it sitting in the middle east, up for grabs by the strongest gun?

Post by **Foo** » Thu Feb 02, 2006 1:51 am

Again, I get what you're saying, it makes sense. But then if the US's interest exends to keeping existing oil supplies out of the hands of rogue states and such, that doesn't prevent the development of renewable energy technology.

Also to back away from the US for a moment, there are many more developed states in the world, and politically I can't see any state ever coming into conflicy with the US because said state embarked on ambitious renewable energy programs.

Post by **Nightshade** » Thu Feb 02, 2006 2:14 am

I think that pretty much every industrialized nation in the world is addicted to oil, and so the same limiting factors hold true.
The less developed countries that don't have solely petroleum-based economies probably don't have the resources to develop alternative fuels technologies.

Post by **Kat** » Thu Feb 02, 2006 2:47 am

According to some sources there's another hurdle to get over... alternative solutions currently don't produce nearly enough power for global consumption, so you get a bit of a chicken and egg, catch 22 situation.

Post by **BlueGene** » Thu Feb 02, 2006 2:48 am

I think it’s partly because the infrastructure for oil is already there, to convert it to something else will cost a lot of money. With the rising costs it will happen eventually, I think by about 2020-2030. Unless we make technology to access the oil we currently can’t get or we find more of it. Like Nightshade mentioned oil companies have a lot of influence on government, the stuff that goes down is almost unknown but there are all sorts of internal and external struggles. Most criminal acts done by the US government are completely hidden away from the public. If you want a basic idea watch Syriana, the story is fictional but the concept is most likely accurate. What you hear on the news is completely different from reality, and it’s almost impossible to know the truth you can only suspect.

Underdeveloped nations are basically controlled by the World Bank/US, they are forced to privatize their industry and then given money to develop these industries. However this money doesn’t benefit the people, only the foreign companies working in the area and the kings or leaders of the country. For example water is privatized in a lot of African countries and only American & French water companies benefit from this, Africa is also in a lot of debt as a result of the money given to develop these industries. The US government has supported many military coups in order to put up puppet governments so they can then sell the services or products or use their natural resources. Hugo Chavez being a quite recent example, they even manipulated CNN to specifically deliver false information. The reason why it’s interesting is because it’s so obvious in this example, if you want a really good documentary about this watch "The revolution will not be televised".

Post by **Wizard .3** » Thu Feb 02, 2006 5:52 am

In Bush's State of the Union speech, he rambled on about a new Energy policy would would invest millions into such things as ethanol fuel, solar energy, and hydrogen fuel cells. It was actually quite suprising coming from him... Nowhere near the levels of funding needed to properly advance the technology, but I suppose it's a start. Here's a link: http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/01/31/sotu.energy/index.html

But ya, more countries need to start investing. Iceland is quite public about their hydrogen program, but they're blessed with geothermal energy coming out of their ass.

Post by **Wizard .3** » Thu Feb 02, 2006 5:54 am

Foo wrote: There was some mention of a Chinese(?) Fusion Reactor in development which hinted it was further along than any other, but it seems a far way from the kind of leaps-and-bounds-ahead state you could expect to see from a nation making renewable energy as a whole as a high priority.

http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/12.09/china.html
Not fusion in this case, but still quite an interesting read.

Post by **Captain** » Thu Feb 02, 2006 8:50 am

Wizard .3 wrote:In Bush's State of the Union speech, he rambled on about a new Energy policy would would invest millions into such things as ethanol fuel, solar energy, and hydrogen fuel cells. It was actually quite suprising coming from him... Nowhere near the levels of funding needed to properly advance the technology, but I suppose it's a start. Here's a link: http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/01/31/sotu.energy/index.html

But ya, more countries need to start investing. Iceland is quite public about their hydrogen program, but they're blessed with geothermal energy coming out of their ass.

You actually believe something that Bush says?

Post by **MidnightQ4** » Thu Feb 02, 2006 10:57 am

I think we aren't doing shit about it cause they morons in power expect to be on their deathbed by the time shit gets really bad. They are fucking the rest of us over. Assholes!

New fusion tests are scheduled for this year, keep your eyes open for that, cause it's probably the only thing that will stave off the coming shit storm for a while.

I think the record 36 BILLION dollars that Exxon made in profits last year should ALL be signed over to alternative fuel research efforts. We should just pass a law that 90% of all profits oil companies make is taken as taxes to fund new energy source development.

How the fuck is Exxon making so much money anyway when their profit margin should be almost zero due to competition? Anyone know? Fucking made 11 Billion last quarter for god sake. Fucking lower gas prices you fucking tool jobs!

Post by **Wizard .3** » Thu Feb 02, 2006 12:10 pm

Captain Mazda wrote:
Wizard .3 wrote:In Bush's State of the Union speech, he rambled on about a new Energy policy would would invest millions into such things as ethanol fuel, solar energy, and hydrogen fuel cells. It was actually quite suprising coming from him... Nowhere near the levels of funding needed to properly advance the technology, but I suppose it's a start. Here's a link: http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/01/31/sotu.energy/index.html

But ya, more countries need to start investing. Iceland is quite public about their hydrogen program, but they're blessed with geothermal energy coming out of their ass.
You actually believe something that Bush says?

My point was more that it's definitely a complete 180 in his agenda. He specifically said America is addicted to oil. Tha administration has completely reversed their policy from 4 years ago...

But shit man, you really got me there.
:icon27:

Post by **Freakaloin** » Thu Feb 02, 2006 1:18 pm

tesla demonstrated free energy for the whole planet to jp morgan 100 years ago...jp morgan fired his ass and teslas work has been supressed ever since...oil companies have since squashed all patents that could kill oil profits...

they are gonna milk the planet of all its oil then the alternatives will start showing up later...

Post by **Nightshade** » Thu Feb 02, 2006 1:52 pm

'Free energy'

Dr. Geoof.

Post by **Freakaloin** » Thu Feb 02, 2006 2:01 pm

has nothing to do with me...its a fact jack...sry u don't like...

Post by **Nightshade** » Thu Feb 02, 2006 6:09 pm

Sorry, but unless all the laws of physics and thermodynamics have changed overnight, there's no such thing as free energy, numbnuts.

Post by **Kat** » Thu Feb 02, 2006 6:22 pm

Nightshade wrote:Sorry, but unless all the laws of physics and thermodynamics have changed overnight, there's no such thing as free energy, numbnuts.

Apparently what Tesla meant by the term 'free energy' was tapping into the electromagnetic fields that are all around us. A good part of his government experiments were *apparently* to do with tapping into this so called 'free' energy. Unfortunately a lot of it is speculation becasue his notebooks were 'confiscated' by the FBI under the guise of National Security so they can't be conclusively proven/tested/disproved.