Opinions on an op-ed piece I am putting together...

Post by **tnf** » Mon Jan 30, 2006 7:57 pm

Edit -

Ok the thing has been discussed enough. I'll get back to you when I have some things worked out.

Post by **Dek** » Mon Jan 30, 2006 8:06 pm

Sounds like you're going in to many directions..

Post by **ScooterG** » Mon Jan 30, 2006 8:09 pm

Nice, well-written first draft! Unfortunately, there are no new arguments, I've heard all of these (of course maybe that's because I post here w/ the Q3W literati!).... Who's your target audience? Is this for a school board or local paper?

Post by **menkent** » Mon Jan 30, 2006 8:43 pm

Dek wrote:Sounds like you're going in too many directions..

word. what's the argument? president == bad? Karamazov == good? porn? also, i'd argue with you about the administration wanting to suppress freedoms. it seems more like they (stupidly) view ID itself as a legit tool to "explore and explain the workings of this universe." besides, "freedom" is such a wanky talking-point word anymore. why not just talk about our Culture of Empericism against their evil Culture of Reading-old-books-too-literally or call them "outside the mainstream" or whatever.
oh, and there were a couple sentence fragments in there. >_<

Post by **BlueGene** » Mon Jan 30, 2006 8:57 pm

It needs more structure and organization, first setup the argument before you provide evidence for it. Don’t attack intelligent design so bluntly, instead provide better evidence on how it’s inherently flawed followed by arguments on why it should be restrained from inclusion in the school curriculum. The porn argument is valid, yet some people may use it to discredit you, simply based on moral grounds. I would suggest you find someone else.

Post by **tnf** » Mon Jan 30, 2006 9:15 pm

Alright, I get it...its terrible at the moment...
I know it is very meandering right now. Again, it was basically a 10-minute train of thought...just spewing some ideas out right now to get them in front of me so I can start fine tuning things. Its how I write...basically puke all the information and ideas I can down into some relatively coherent manner, then start to fix things up.

As for intelligent design, the point isn't to delve deeply into its flaws...that's something that can be done elsewhere...the point I'm going towards is that the injection of ideas like ID into the classroom under the guise of science is much more insidious than folks may realize. Tying that to the attack on adult entertainment was done to show that there is a continuing move towards a 'theocracy' - ideas, lifestyle choices, etc., becoming censored or outlawed because Christian leaders don't agree with them..its something wrought with gray areas, because the underlying assumption of almost any law seems to be the acceptance of some code of morality.

Let me ask those of you who were critical this - I am the only one who sees a link between trying to inject God into the science classroom and the potential war on 'legal' porn by extremely religious Christians in the US government? It may not be right around the corner, but do you think these could be small steps towards the return to a time where the Bible becomes out gold standard for what we all do and teach? My gut tells me it won't go that far, but I do get concerned when I see things that seem to indicate a subtle change in course to that direction...

Post by **-Replicant-** » Mon Jan 30, 2006 9:21 pm

spell that out a little bit in between your two ideas (to connect them), then have a full paragraph explaining that connection afterwards. i, personally, would not argue them as analogous, but instead would use them as two seperate examples of how we're moving in a common direction towards what you call the theocracy

Post by **tnf** » Mon Jan 30, 2006 9:29 pm

Yea, that was one of the first things I was going to do...spell out the two scenarios in a more direct manner and then sort of pull them together to show the reader how these seemingly unrelated issues may point to a broader shift in philosophies here.
Before I put this thread out of its misery (I don't want you all thinking this rambling collection of ideas is indicative of my best work...

), I'd still be interested to see if anyone has something to add regarding this shift to a theocracy...
Jules, Hannibal, etc...I think the links are there between some of the issues I've mentioned, but any other insights would be appreciated.

Post by **BlueGene** » Mon Jan 30, 2006 9:36 pm

No, the porn argument is very valid, however if it’s for a group of average naive people then they will think this as soon as u mention porn.

Porn > Immoral > This guy is crazy! Comparing the school curriculum to porn?

Post by **menkent** » Mon Jan 30, 2006 10:36 pm

they're both instances of judeo-christian morality affecting law, but that's hardly an emergent phenomenon or a shift in philosophies. puritans have been around for ummm...500 years? i've never lived in a state where it was legal to buy liquor on sundays (before noon, at least, depending on the state). also, i have no clue what attack on adult entertainment you're referring to. some new legislation i haven't bothered to read about?

Post by **tnf** » Mon Jan 30, 2006 10:47 pm

http://www.neilrogers.com/news/articles/2005070609.html

Don't know how far its gotten...

Post by **tnf** » Mon Jan 30, 2006 10:50 pm

menkent wrote:they're both instances of judeo-christian morality affecting law, but that's hardly an emergent phenomenon or a shift in philosophies. puritans have been around for ummm...500 years? i've never lived in a state where it was legal to buy liquor on sundays (before noon, at least, depending on the state). also, i have no clue what attack on adult entertainment you're referring to. some new legislation i haven't bothered to read about?

Not saying its an emergent phenomena, more like a swing of the pendulum. Hence the 'return to an intellectual dark age.' I don't want to see generations of impressionable students sent out into the world after having been taught Biblical creationism or its ugly cousin ID theory as science from a public school.

Post by **Hannibal** » Mon Jan 30, 2006 11:19 pm

Curses! I missed the fun.

Post by **tnf** » Tue Jan 31, 2006 12:03 am

it was nothing worth checking out...i'll put something more coherent together and let you see that. I got the feedback I wanted and expected - basically to tighten the whole thing up.

Post by **ScooterG** » Tue Jan 31, 2006 12:05 am

Do you mind saying who it's for?

Post by **tnf** » Tue Jan 31, 2006 12:07 am

Its a professional newsletter type thing...nothing important or relevant to most people.

Post by **Nightshade** » Tue Jan 31, 2006 12:08 am

It definitely needed the word 'fuck' sprinkled through it liberally.

Post by **MKJ** » Tue Jan 31, 2006 12:39 pm