Music industry going completely and utterly bonkers

Post by **Eraser** » Mon Dec 12, 2005 9:19 am

http://www.pcpro.co.uk/news/81217/music ... osure.html

US music publishers are calling for the imprisonment of owners of websites that contain song lyrics, guitar tabs and musical scores.

The Music Publishers' Association (MPA) says such unlicensed publication is illegal and that closing websites and fining their owners is insufficient punishment.

Post by **MKJ** » Mon Dec 12, 2005 9:23 am

yes, there are already too many empty cells to begin with. we need more felonies to preserve the inmatebalance, dammit!

Post by **Eraser** » Mon Dec 12, 2005 9:27 am

riddla wrote:We should just go ahead and erect prison bars completely around our borders.

hehe

Post by **mjrpes** » Mon Dec 12, 2005 9:42 am

What does that mean for a site like http://www.songmeanings.net ?

Post by **Grudge** » Mon Dec 12, 2005 9:46 am

Sounds like a bad april fools joke.

Keise added that the photocopier had hit songwriters and composers' incomes but that the Internet 'is taking more of a bite'.

photocopier? wtf?

Post by **mjrpes** » Mon Dec 12, 2005 9:48 am

I don't think this is a joke. It was posted on slashdot recently:

http://yro.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid= ... 16&tid=123

And err.... the bbc:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/4508158.stm

Post by **Eraser** » Mon Dec 12, 2005 10:09 am

It's just weird because tabulature and musical scores are the personal interpretation of a song from an author. Many bands even have community made tabs on their own site.

Lyrics are even stranger, as I don't see how that would pose a threat to sales, as I've never heard of something like books with nothing but lyrics being sold.

Post by **andyman** » Mon Dec 12, 2005 10:51 am

See why I hate new music?

Post by **MKJ** » Mon Dec 12, 2005 10:51 am

my god, thats a golden idea

Post by **Massive Quasars** » Mon Dec 12, 2005 12:02 pm

riddla wrote:We should just go ahead and erect prison bars completely around our borders.

You tried that, the confederacy failed.

Post by **[xeno]Julios** » Mon Dec 12, 2005 12:12 pm

riddla wrote:One day people will realize that musicians should get paid for performing live and record for free distribution. That would weed out 99.9% of the bullshit wannabe hacks overnight and the truly talented would be out there playing for money in front of an audience.

what about forms of music that don't cater to live performance, due to the logistics involved in its creation, or due to the style of music itself?

Post by **R00k** » Mon Dec 12, 2005 2:19 pm

Don't they realize that nearly all the people who write tabs and lyrics are fans who have bought the music? Besides, as somebody else said, tab is usually the work of fans learning the music by ear -- I can understand if someone is copying straight out of one of the tab books that are sold by the company, but being locked up for posting their own interpretation of the work? WTF?
I'd like to believe that if something like this were enacted, the fans would collectively say screw the record companies and stop buying their products.
These days though, it doesn't seem like people make the connection between what product their money pays for, and whose agenda it supports, so I imagine the sheeple will keep on keeping on, whatever happens.

Post by **Foo** » Mon Dec 12, 2005 2:42 pm

R00k wrote:Don't they realize that nearly all the people who write tabs and lyrics are fans who have bought the music? Besides, as somebody else said, tab is usually the work of fans learning the music by ear -- I can understand if someone is copying straight out of one of the tab books that are sold by the company, but being locked up for posting their own interpretation of the work? WTF?
I'd like to believe that if something like this were enacted, the fans would collectively say screw the record companies and stop buying their products.
These days though, it doesn't seem like people make the connection between what product their money pays for, and whose agenda it supports, so I imagine the sheeple will keep on keeping on, whatever happens.

I look at it with the same view as I look at much of the gaming industry nowadays: The guys that are truly dedicated, put up websites, create assets, the guys that form the roots of the online communities... those guys are a minority. In simple analytical terms, they're insignificant, and if wishing to maximise profit you ignore them and target joe average.

Of course, in the long run this may prove counterproductive - It leads to degredation of the online community and in turn that lessens the popularity of your 'product'.

Post by **plained** » Mon Dec 12, 2005 3:35 pm

i'd guess that includes midi as well

Post by **Eraser** » Mon Dec 12, 2005 3:35 pm

Foo wrote:I look at it with the same view as I look at much of the gaming industry nowadays: The guys that are truly dedicated, put up websites, create assets, the guys that form the roots of the online communities... those guys are a minority. In simple analytical terms, they're insignificant, and if wishing to maximise profit you ignore them and target joe average.

Of course, in the long run this may prove counterproductive - It leads to degredation of the online community and in turn that lessens the popularity of your 'product'.

I don't fully follow your reasoning there. How is it any different that Joe average uses assets from a game or tabulature from a musical piece from a hardcore fan using that same material? And with that I mean that since the hardcore fans don't hurt the music or games industry, joe average doesn't either.

I can't see how using a Quake 3 texture as your website's background image or learning to play a cool riff from online guitar tabulature hurts the owner of the intellectual property.

Post by **Foo** » Mon Dec 12, 2005 3:49 pm

Eraser wrote:I don't fully follow your reasoning there. How is it any different that Joe average uses assets from a game or tabulature from a musical piece from a hardcore fan using that same material? And with that I mean that since the hardcore fans don't hurt the music or games industry, joe average doesn't either.

I can't see how using a Quake 3 texture as your website's background image or learning to play a cool riff from online guitar tabulature hurts the owner of the intellectual property.

You missed my meaning. It's the 'hardcore' amongst the community who do the 'putting up' of all this information/assets/work in the first place, and the ones being persecuted here.

Perhaps you think I'm arguing against Rook's post when I'm actually adding to the point.

Post by **Eraser** » Mon Dec 12, 2005 3:50 pm

Right. I see what you mean.

Post by **Tormentius** » Mon Dec 12, 2005 9:08 pm

That's insane. I search lyrics on a regular basis since many artists no longer even include them with a CD. The music industries insanity needs to be stopped IMO.

Post by **R00k** » Mon Dec 12, 2005 9:49 pm

Pretty soon they'll be having people arrested for singing their artists' songs in the car.

Officer:Hey, you there! Whether they like it or not, the Sex Pistols' songs are still under copyright. This is a warning, but if I catch you singing "The Great Rock 'N' Roll Swindle" again, I'm going to have to charge you a royalty so it can be delivered to Mr. Rotten.

Punk:You're going to give the cash straight to the lead singer of the band? Cool, I'll give you cash now, can I write a note on it to him?

Officer:That's the singer's name? How strange, I was talking about the RIAA's attorney...

Post by **[xeno]Julios** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 7:29 am

Post by **Eraser** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 8:18 am

More bullshit: http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/co ... 964063.htm

Now the recording industry claims that Apple's iPod hurts the industry because, and I quote
"As has been true since the start, iPod owners mostly fill up their players from their own CD collections or swipe tunes from file-sharing sites."
I see the file-sharing sites problem, but not getting songs from your own CD collection. They claiming that's illegal as well now?

Post by **Geebs** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 11:15 am

Yeah, you have to buy a whole new copy of the CD to put on your iPod, IT's TEH LAW!!!11

Funnily enough, even though I "own the right" to play tracks on CDs I own, if the cd gets buggered through age, I'm still expected to buy a new copy at full price....

Post by **R00k** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 2:54 pm

Geebs wrote:Yeah, you have to buy a whole new copy of the CD to put on your iPod, IT's TEH LAW!!!11

Funnily enough, even though I "own the right" to play tracks on CDs I own, if the cd gets buggered through age, I'm still expected to buy a new copy at full price....

That's been a major gripe of mine too. If they are so intent on licensing the intellectual property, then where were they when I had to buy Dark Side of the Moon and Master of Puppets five times each? All at the same price - no "media only cost" because I had already paid for licensing the music, as is done with software.

Fuck the RIAA. They don't want it both ways, they want it all ways, and they don't care how much they have to subvert the law to get it.

Post by **R00k** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 2:59 pm

And they've been trying to shut down OLGA for years - I've never understood why.

It's not like people are trying to artificially recreate their music to replace legitimate copies. These are just people trying to learn how to play the guitar - some of them future clients of the RIAA, I'm sure.

It has never made any sense to me. If there were a legitimate reason for outlawing tablature I wish someone would explain it to me.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 10:09 pm

Next in the news the RIAA decided to ban hearing these lyrics. So now, all songs will have no lyrics.