Netherlands - is this for real?

Post by **S@M** » Mon Nov 21, 2005 2:07 am

The Netherlands, terrorists want to threaten not only the public ... they also want to kill public figures, such as artists, academics and politicians," he said. "It is not special in terms of Islam -- in Iran, it is normal to kill people who criticise Islam, as in Egypt and Iraq. It is legitimised by Islamic political theology, which says it is all right to kill someone if they are an enemy of Allah. But this is happening in Europe."

linky:http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5744,17308340%255E2703,00.html

sounds pretty damn serious, comments from anyone with local experience?

Post by **Ryoki** » Mon Nov 21, 2005 2:16 am

bah media hype :\

Post by **Massive Quasars** » Mon Nov 21, 2005 2:18 am

The rise in the death threats started in 2002 when Pim Fortuyn, a flamboyant, gay, right-wing maverick, called for a halt to Islamic immigration. He complained that police did not take the death threats against him seriously. He was killed not by a Muslim, but by a left-wing activist who said he did it "for the Muslims".

lol

Post by **Ryoki** » Mon Nov 21, 2005 2:21 am

That minister that was shot at like it sais in that article, yeah, that turned out to be a bird that flew into her window and caused a suspicious looking crack.

Post by **seremtan** » Mon Nov 21, 2005 2:31 am

are these actually terrorists or just bandwagon-jumpers in a society whose own sense of cultural identity is so flaky they don't have the stomach for immigration?

america doesn't seem to have this problem, and surely they would be the #1 target for nutjobs like this. then again, america is better at absorbing immigrants than most european countries, whose cretinous leaders take a stand on everything but believe in nothing

Post by **Massive Quasars** » Mon Nov 21, 2005 2:41 am

I tend to believe that Europe needs to, at the very least, minimally integrate muslims (through non-coercive means) or only accept muslims who respect the basic laws of their countries.

Are there muslim ghettos in the netherlands like there are in France?

Post by **S@M** » Mon Nov 21, 2005 3:28 am

probably most countries have segregation, but hopefully, that does not rule out equal opportunity. THere are definate areas in Australia where the Scotts tend to live, and its the same for Irish, Greek, various Asian groups etc, but perhaps unlike France, other contries have done better at providing good opportunties for these groups?

Post by **MKJ** » Mon Nov 21, 2005 8:46 am

seremtan wrote:are these actually terrorists or just bandwagon-jumpers in a society whose own sense of cultural identity is so flaky they don't have the stomach for immigration?

the latter

Post by **r3t** » Mon Nov 21, 2005 8:57 am

Massive Quasars wrote: Are there muslim ghettos in the netherlands like there are in France?

Nope, not even close to that.

Post by **dmmh** » Mon Nov 21, 2005 9:22 am

well, there are the mosque's......

Post by **Massive Quasars** » Mon Nov 21, 2005 9:24 am

dmmh wrote:well, there are the mosque's......

?

Post by **dmmh** » Mon Nov 21, 2005 9:37 am

well its a large concentration of muslims right?

Post by **Massive Quasars** » Mon Nov 21, 2005 9:50 am

dmmh wrote:well its a large concentration of muslims right?

Yes, but not a ghetto.

Post by **MKJ** » Mon Nov 21, 2005 9:54 am

thats like saying a church are the christian slums

Post by **Massive Quasars** » Mon Nov 21, 2005 9:59 am

indeed

Post by **Massive Quasars** » Mon Nov 21, 2005 10:00 am

curious...

In what ways do muslims feel isolated? Is there a social or economic barrier that prevents them from sufficiently mingling with the rest of the populace in everyday life? Are their job prospects worse compared to equally qualified dutchmen and women?

Post by **dmmh** » Mon Nov 21, 2005 10:12 am

i was just joking

I dont think there really is, except the very obvious barriers: language and culture

but there is a very large group which tends to keep themselves isolated from the rest of society, a group which considers western culture repulsive and such. Basically they are just here for the benefits and spit on the rest. I think that is sad. Nothing wrong with immigrants, but if people dislike this place so much, why stay? One can always return to their own country. To me at least, that's simple logic.

For the record: I have nothing against any muslims, but if you are gonna come down here and start trying to change the way things are done up here, I think you do not belong here. Its a matter of integrating.

Post by **MKJ** » Mon Nov 21, 2005 10:14 am

my brother once had a muslim girlfriend (she wasnt religious at all). they had to keep it secret though because if her family found out she was dating a western guy she'd be disowned and he'd prolly get his legs broken.
her older sister went to the university and was disowned for that

she was supposed to marry some dude the family picked out for her and stay home to take care of "the kids". wtf

Post by **dmmh** » Mon Nov 21, 2005 10:16 am

yeah, that the primary reason I do not start a conversation with this Maroq chick I see every week or so, a few times. She is the most beautiful woman I have ever seen, but what's the point?
I'd rather avoid these problems from the get go

Post by **Massive Quasars** » Mon Nov 21, 2005 10:49 am

Then the problem seems both cultural for the muslims, and governmental for the Netherlands.

...but there is a very large group which tends to keep themselves isolated from the rest of society, a group which considers western culture repulsive and such. Basically they are just here for the benefits and spit on the rest.

Maybe their benefits should expire after they've lived there long enough? Perhaps 2-5 years after arriving? This could apply to all immigrants and citizens as well.

Much of what goes on within traditional muslim families should not be beyond dutch law. This goes back to my post about respecting basic laws of your adopted nation.

Post by **MKJ** » Mon Nov 21, 2005 10:56 am

well you know, for a very long time everything negative said about immigrants was considered either racist or "not-done". it wasnt until Pim Fortuyn started to spout his direct dislike towards the immigrants that people were actually brave enough to talk about it.

if someone would propose that 5 year benefit law 5 years ago, he'd be the head anti-muslim.

i dont agree with everything what Pim Fortuyn said, but he did make it a more open subject. pwnt

Post by **Zyte** » Mon Nov 21, 2005 11:17 am

yeah he did that..

Post by **Massive Quasars** » Mon Nov 21, 2005 11:18 am

Debate is the first step, I guess that wasn't even socially acceptable not long ago. Thanks for getting me up-to-date.

Post by **4days** » Mon Nov 21, 2005 11:20 am

that khomeini geezer didn't help much. seemed like there was a little more integration before he started preaching the notion of insular pockets and killing crap novelists.