Do you believe Bush misled the nation in order to go to war

[R00k]

Out of about 65,000 votes, 94% say yes.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8248969/

Also you'll note a fairly recent poll (Zogby I think?) where a large majority of Americans said they would support impeaching Bush if it were true that he lied or misled the nation to start the Iraq war.

Crushed.

[Canis]

They should split up the votes by geographical region...that would be interesting.

[Canis]

I'd love to see a full impeachment hearing, but unfortunately I think there are too many political and legal loopholes for that to proceed smoothly.

[R00k]

There's hardly even a chance that there would be any right now - unless some Republicans started jumping on board.
But after the elections...

[HM-PuFFNSTuFF]

http://www.informationclearinghouse.inf ... e11051.htm

[Fender]

I've always wondered how people could believe otherwise. I mean from the very begining they spouted their BS about a link between Osama and Hussein. Let alone the intelligence.

[R00k]

Yea, I've been quite amazed at how the media seems to have taken the tack of "Well let's give them the benefit of the doubt, and assume the administration would never lie about anything," for the last 2 years.
Most of the facts about the intelligence-doctoring have been floating around the public domain since the war began. Aside from the Downing Street Memo, I can't really think of anything else that's been completely new.

[Guest]

It's not really a valid survey. Peope who have internet and visit MSNBC are probably smarter than rednecks and trailer trash who make up 51% of america (who voted for Bush I mean).

[seremtan]

Out of about 65,000 votes, 94% say yes.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8248969/

Also you'll note a fairly recent poll (Zogby I think?) where a large majority of Americans said they would support impeaching Bush if it were true that he lied or misled the nation to start the Iraq war.

Crushed.

at least someone asked the question. i don't recall anyone in the UK asking how many people think blair should take a (likely one-way) trip to the hague

[prince1000]

Yea, I've been quite amazed at how the media seems to have taken the tack of "Well let's give them the benefit of the doubt, and assume the administration would never lie about anything," for the last 2 years.
Most of the facts about the intelligence-doctoring have been floating around the public domain since the war began. Aside from the Downing Street Memo, I can't really think of anything else that's been completely new.

that's quite a sad little poll really...

[R00k]

How do you mean?

[seremtan]

Yea, I've been quite amazed at how the media seems to have taken the tack of "Well let's give them the benefit of the doubt, and assume the administration would never lie about anything," for the last 2 years.

questioning the government's motives and suggesting mendacity usually brings charges of "irresponsible" or "crusading" journalism. i think in the US they call journalists who do that 'radioactive'

there's a few reasons why the media are the way they are, the main one being that no one rises very high in any media outlet unless they think in a certain 'acceptable' way. partly also there's the threat of withdrawal of 'access' to politicians (the importance placed on this access - which is just access to government bullshit - comes from that thinking-in-a-certain-way thing, i.e. the utterances of politicians are deemed to be hugely important, for no worthwhile reason that i can see)

when the BBC ran an interview with mordecai vanunu the israeli govt threw a hissy fit and threatened to deny the BBC access, which elicited a grovelling apology for airing the interview. utterly pathetic, and very revealing of a government-centric mindset at the BBC (even if that govt is a foreign one)

[prince1000]

How do you mean?

i voted no, btw.

do you think there will be so much as even an indictment of karl rove?
where was this 94% 3 years ago when, as you said, everything you needed to know about wolfowitz, cheney, and rumsfield and their lust for a western-leaning pro-democracy in the middle east?
being duped by bush? who would admit to that?

im sure you agree but im tired of the american public playing both the role of the aggressor and the victim for the last 50 some-odd years. the media is responsible for only so much when much of the populace is plagued by inaction.

[Hannibal]

How do you mean?

im sure you agree but im tired of the american public playing both the role of the aggressor and the victim for the last 50 some-odd years. the media is responsible for only so much when much of the populace is plagued by inaction.

well said.

[bitWISE]

im sure you agree but im tired of the american public playing both the role of the aggressor and the victim for the last 50 some-odd years. the media is responsible for only so much when much of the populace is plagued by inaction.

For most of us there is nothing we can do. I try to explain issues to everyone who will listen but most people either wont listen or their too stubborn/stupid to understand. I've told this story before but I actually had my gf's best friend tell me that she voted for Bush because he was a good 'ole country boy. Nothing is going to convince these kind of people why they should care because it doesn't effect them.

I used to contact my representatives on every issue that I opposed...but after so much ignorance I finally gave up. It's very frustrating when you begin to learn that democracy means nothing without numbers.

[menkent]

I actually had my gf's best friend tell me that she voted for Bush because he was a good 'ole country boy. Nothing is going to convince these kind of people why they should care because it doesn't effect them.

rofl. that's one girlfriends mom that would've gotten laughed at to her face if i were around. then punched in the throat.

we need to treat voting like rollercoasters. just put a little cardboard cutout of Corky the Retard by the booth saying "If you're not as smart as me, go the fuck home. -->"

[hax103]

ROFL. I just ran a perl script which added 1000 more
votes to the yes.

Not a very good survey - should have constraints to avoid cheating
outrageously. I just changed the browser name and cleared cookies each iteration.

Sending an email to them now.

LOL

Out of about 65,000 votes, 94% say yes.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8248969/

Also you'll note a fairly recent poll (Zogby I think?) where a large majority of Americans said they would support impeaching Bush if it were true that he lied or misled the nation to start the Iraq war.

Crushed.

[R00k]

It's an internet survey, so I take it with a grain of salt anyway.

But if it's that open to hacking it's pretty much worthless for all practical purposes.

[R00k]

How do you mean?

i voted no, btw.

do you think there will be so much as even an indictment of karl rove?
where was this 94% 3 years ago when, as you said, everything you needed to know about wolfowitz, cheney, and rumsfield and their lust for a western-leaning pro-democracy in the middle east?
being duped by bush? who would admit to that?

im sure you agree but im tired of the american public playing both the role of the aggressor and the victim for the last 50 some-odd years. the media is responsible for only so much when much of the populace is plagued by inaction.

I agree for the most part. But even so the media plays a role, because most of that populace would believe just about anything that was on major cable news channels.

[prince1000]

How do you mean?

i voted no, btw.

do you think there will be so much as even an indictment of karl rove?
where was this 94% 3 years ago when, as you said, everything you needed to know about wolfowitz, cheney, and rumsfield and their lust for a western-leaning pro-democracy in the middle east?
being duped by bush? who would admit to that?

im sure you agree but im tired of the american public playing both the role of the aggressor and the victim for the last 50 some-odd years. the media is responsible for only so much when much of the populace is plagued by inaction.

I agree for the most part. But even so the media plays a role, because most of that populace would believe just about anything that was on major cable news channels.

hence, a sad little poll if those results are genuine.

edit:

media...we can all discount any network and it's affiliates as bogus, no? fox? the hate factor? america is one big insular community that lives in their cars and sucks octane 94 for breakfast without any concern where the priviledge comes from. scary to live like that. the left has been so marginalised that to even THINK like that is fanatical (the questioning i mean). it's insane, and unhealthy, and will only continue to bite you in the ass unless you start questioning YOUR OWN motivations for pursuing this pathetic, passive-aggressive excuse for 'quality of life' that's just simply complacency.

[hax103]

LOL. Well naturally the states would be a big insular community, but so is Europe - in particular it seems that peeps from non-metropolitan cities are clueless about the world - i.e. no idea where singapore is for example.

When bush was going for re-election, i was shocked and appalled that verbal surveys in France showed 37%; Britain 41%; and Italy 46% would have voted for Bush. WTF.

And inevitably the conditions in France have led to the "paris is burning" riots. I only expect more of these social unrest blips to hit europe in the next years Our life isn't so fantastic and peeps will need to take their blinders off soon.

media...we can all discount any network and it's affiliates as bogus, no? fox? the hate factor? america is one big insular community that lives in their cars and sucks octane 94 for breakfast without any concern where the priviledge comes from. scary to live like that. the left has been so marginalised that to even THINK like that is fanatical (the questioning i mean). it's insane, and unhealthy, and will only continue to bite you in the ass unless you start questioning YOUR OWN motivations for pursuing this pathetic, passive-aggressive excuse for 'quality of life' that's just simply complacency.

[Freakaloin]

[R00k]

hence, a sad little poll if those results are genuine.

I still don't understand what you mean by that.

As for the second part of your post, it sounds preachy - who was it directed towards?