I'll be getting my bachelor's in CS this June so I'm starting to look within Nationwide (my current employer) for development positions. I've heard a rumor that they may offer me a salary position on the support team that I'm currently stuck in but I'm not sure if I would accept it.
So what kind of numbers do you guys think I should shoot for? I was thinking a target of $45,000 is a good place to start but I just read the average developer in the finance industry is pulling $70,000. What about signing bonuses? Benefits? Any pointers?
Negotiating salary
Negotiating salary
Last edited by bitWISE on Thu Nov 10, 2005 2:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Guest
Re: Negotiating salary
Ask them if you can buy stocks from the cie. Most of serious cies provide them anyway and it shows that you believe in it, a plus for you.bitWISE wrote:I'll be getting my bachelor's in CS this June so I'm starting to look within Nationwide (my current employer) for development positions. I've heard a rumor that they may offer me a salary position on the support team that I'm currently stuck in but I'm not sure if I would accept it.
So what kind of numbers do you guys think I should shoot for? I was thinking a target of $45,000 is a good place to start but I just read the average developer in the finance industry is pulling $70,000. What about signing bonuses? Benefits? Any pointers?
Re: Negotiating salary
Good point. Stock options. NF stock seems to be pretty stable. However, if I get a position with NI the company is privately owned.pete wrote:Ask them if you can buy stocks from the cie. Most of serious cies provide them anyway and it shows that you believe in it, a plus for you.bitWISE wrote:I'll be getting my bachelor's in CS this June so I'm starting to look within Nationwide (my current employer) for development positions. I've heard a rumor that they may offer me a salary position on the support team that I'm currently stuck in but I'm not sure if I would accept it.
So what kind of numbers do you guys think I should shoot for? I was thinking a target of $45,000 is a good place to start but I just read the average developer in the finance industry is pulling $70,000. What about signing bonuses? Benefits? Any pointers?
Software Engineering is a dog eat dog field. Take care of your assets and worry only about yourself. Try to get the most money possible. Don't rely on benefits/bonuses because you might be layed off before you can even see them. (Project ends, lack of funding, etc)
Last I checked, the starting "average nationwide" salary for american developers was $50,000.
Oh, and if the project is doomed from the start, leave it. Don't taint your work image because of a lack of leadership.
PS: Business managers and project managers don't really understand each other. If you're not 100% sure on a company, don't waste time. Move on!
edit: In case you're wondering about myself: I grew tired of the current "clusterfuck" that is current development companies. I have since chosen to join a fortune 500 company and focus on project deployment and support. Much better working environment with a more "permanent" feel. Oh yeah, the benefits are much better too.
Last I checked, the starting "average nationwide" salary for american developers was $50,000.
Oh, and if the project is doomed from the start, leave it. Don't taint your work image because of a lack of leadership.
PS: Business managers and project managers don't really understand each other. If you're not 100% sure on a company, don't waste time. Move on!
edit: In case you're wondering about myself: I grew tired of the current "clusterfuck" that is current development companies. I have since chosen to join a fortune 500 company and focus on project deployment and support. Much better working environment with a more "permanent" feel. Oh yeah, the benefits are much better too.
Thanks duf. I started my internship on a project that had it's funding cut only to be taken over by another division. I've been floating around the department ever since.duffman91 wrote:Software Engineering is a dog eat dog field. Take care of your assets and worry only about yourself. Try to get the most money possible. Don't rely on benefits/bonuses because you might be layed off before you can even see them. (Project ends, lack of funding, etc)
Last I checked, the starting "average nationwide" salary for american developers was $50,000.
Oh, and if the project is doomed from the start, leave it. Don't taint your work image because of a lack of leadership.
PS: Business managers and project managers don't really understand each other. If you're not 100% sure on a company, don't waste time. Move on!
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MidnightQ4
- Posts: 520
- Joined: Tue Oct 18, 2005 7:59 pm
ya starting salaries are around 50,000 or so. experienced programmers 3-5 years make around 70-90 and architects make 100-150k depending on experience and the size of projects.
basically coming right out of school you can't really bargain much on salary, most places just lump you in with the "college new hire" label and treat eveyone the same.
however in your case since you already work there and in theory have experience doing what you are going to be doing when/if they hire you, you could claim that as being a solid year of experience and ask for 10% more because of that. so 55k or so is not out of the question. but then again most places have these retarded salary brackets and the upper limit for college hires may be X and they just won't pay you more than X. So the thing you need to do is emphasize your experience level is more than a college hire.
basically coming right out of school you can't really bargain much on salary, most places just lump you in with the "college new hire" label and treat eveyone the same.
however in your case since you already work there and in theory have experience doing what you are going to be doing when/if they hire you, you could claim that as being a solid year of experience and ask for 10% more because of that. so 55k or so is not out of the question. but then again most places have these retarded salary brackets and the upper limit for college hires may be X and they just won't pay you more than X. So the thing you need to do is emphasize your experience level is more than a college hire.
You first are going to take the first shit job that comes your way. You have nothing they want other than you have a degree, and there are hundreds of thousands of fools out there with CS degrees. Landing it big at first will mean you get lucky. Do your shit job for a few years and work your ass off. Then either go to grad school or start searching for a job where you can pimp your experience and have a say in your salary.
I don't agree with Canis at all. I know plenty of people fresh out of college making $65,000 programming in respectable, good companies. You simply have to search for the positions. If money is an issue, then obviously take whatever comes. But if you got a few months to wait on your decision, by all means shop around. An interview is not just you desperatelly looking for a job, your potential employer is also desperatelly looking for workers.Canis wrote:You first are going to take the first shit job that comes your way. You have nothing they want other than you have a degree, and there are hundreds of thousands of fools out there with CS degrees. Landing it big at first will mean you get lucky. Do your shit job for a few years and work your ass off. Then either go to grad school or start searching for a job where you can pimp your experience and have a say in your salary.
Re: Negotiating salary
Unless you're a proven genius at coding, odds are early on in your career you're going to have to sacrafice money to gain experience. The more experience you have, the more money you can deman since you have have real world justification and proof you can do what they'd want of you.bitWISE wrote:I'll be getting my bachelor's in CS this June so I'm starting to look within Nationwide (my current employer) for development positions. I've heard a rumor that they may offer me a salary position on the support team that I'm currently stuck in but I'm not sure if I would accept it.
So what kind of numbers do you guys think I should shoot for? I was thinking a target of $45,000 is a good place to start but I just read the average developer in the finance industry is pulling $70,000. What about signing bonuses? Benefits? Any pointers?
Also, this book was HIGHLY recommended to me for anyone looking to properly play the "employment game".
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/159337 ... e&n=283155
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/159337 ... e&n=283155
Sure shop around, but I was under the impression he was about to hagle with an employer over his salary.duffman91 wrote:I don't agree with Canis at all. I know plenty of people fresh out of college making $65,000 programming in respectable, good companies. You simply have to search for the positions. If money is an issue, then obviously take whatever comes. But if you got a few months to wait on your decision, by all means shop around. An interview is not just you desperatelly looking for a job, your potential employer is also desperatelly looking for workers.Canis wrote:You first are going to take the first shit job that comes your way. You have nothing they want other than you have a degree, and there are hundreds of thousands of fools out there with CS degrees. Landing it big at first will mean you get lucky. Do your shit job for a few years and work your ass off. Then either go to grad school or start searching for a job where you can pimp your experience and have a say in your salary.
rofl low self esteam?Canis wrote:You first are going to take the first shit job that comes your way. You have nothing they want other than you have a degree, and there are hundreds of thousands of fools out there with CS degrees. Landing it big at first will mean you get lucky. Do your shit job for a few years and work your ass off. Then either go to grad school or start searching for a job where you can pimp your experience and have a say in your salary.
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^misantropia^
- Posts: 4022
- Joined: Sat Mar 12, 2005 6:24 pm
No, I don't have an interview lined up. Just wanted some pointers on the whole thing and I got some good ideas that I hadn't thought of.Canis wrote:Sure shop around, but I was under the impression he was about to hagle with an employer over his salary.duffman91 wrote:I don't agree with Canis at all. I know plenty of people fresh out of college making $65,000 programming in respectable, good companies. You simply have to search for the positions. If money is an issue, then obviously take whatever comes. But if you got a few months to wait on your decision, by all means shop around. An interview is not just you desperatelly looking for a job, your potential employer is also desperatelly looking for workers.Canis wrote:You first are going to take the first shit job that comes your way. You have nothing they want other than you have a degree, and there are hundreds of thousands of fools out there with CS degrees. Landing it big at first will mean you get lucky. Do your shit job for a few years and work your ass off. Then either go to grad school or start searching for a job where you can pimp your experience and have a say in your salary.
absolutely not, but just speaking from the experience I've had as well as other folks I know.plained wrote:rofl low self esteam?Canis wrote:You first are going to take the first shit job that comes your way. You have nothing they want other than you have a degree, and there are hundreds of thousands of fools out there with CS degrees. Landing it big at first will mean you get lucky. Do your shit job for a few years and work your ass off. Then either go to grad school or start searching for a job where you can pimp your experience and have a say in your salary.
