mrd wrote:Hr.O is right. All the harmonics you hear on guitar are entirely dependant on the wood of the guitar, it's construction, etc. That's why there even IS worry over what woods are used, etc, because they influence the overtones so much that some people don't even like guitars made from certain woods.
But one thing I'm not sure about, however, is if the octave overtone is made from the guitar or can the string itself create overtones of the octave?
i'm sure the soundbox can amplify the harmonics of the string, if the string harmonics, through forced vibrations, elicit compatible harmonics of the soundbox (and that would mean that the soundbox would have a huge effect on the overall sound).
But my question is specifically about the string harmonics.
forget about the guitar - just think of a string with two fixed ends.
mrd wrote:Hr.O is right. All the harmonics you hear on guitar are entirely dependant on the wood of the guitar, it's construction, etc. That's why there even IS worry over what woods are used, etc, because they influence the overtones so much that some people don't even like guitars made from certain woods.
But one thing I'm not sure about, however, is if the octave overtone is made from the guitar or can the string itself create overtones of the octave?
i'm sure the soundbox can amplify the harmonics of the string, if the string harmonics, through forced vibrations, elicit compatible harmonics of the soundbox (and that would mean that the soundbox would have a huge effect on the overall sound).
But my question is specifically about the string harmonics.
forget about the guitar - just think of a string with two fixed ends.
Well a string with two fixed ends might have some harmonics. If you're only thinking about a string then the only possible thing that I can think of that could affect harmonics is what the string is made of. Usually it's steel, nickel or nylon, some strings have trace amounts of phosphorous in them. Obviously, plucking a string doesn't produce a pure tone (maybe it does? has anyone ever plucked a string that doesn't affect the body it's attached to? heh) so there must be some overtones going on. Like I said before, the octave overtones are going to be the most prominent. After that, you're gonna get 4th and 5th interval overtones... not sure what would be loudest after that though.
mrd wrote:Well a string with two fixed ends might have some harmonics.
Not might - it does have harmonics. That's what causes the musical tone of a plucked string, with or without a soundbox (take a rubber band and experiment yourself)
mrd wrote:
If you're only thinking about a string then the only possible thing that I can think of that could affect harmonics is what the string is made of.
String length, tension, and linear density are the factors I think.
mrd wrote:Hr.O is right. All the harmonics you hear on guitar are entirely dependant on the wood of the guitar, it's construction, etc. That's why there even IS worry over what woods are used, etc, because they influence the overtones so much that some people don't even like guitars made from certain woods.
But one thing I'm not sure about, however, is if the octave overtone is made from the guitar or can the string itself create overtones of the octave?
the scale of the guitar would provide insight into that
mrd wrote:Well a string with two fixed ends might have some harmonics.
Not might - it does have harmonics. That's what causes the musical tone of a plucked string, with or without a soundbox (take a rubber band and experiment yourself)
mrd wrote:
If you're only thinking about a string then the only possible thing that I can think of that could affect harmonics is what the string is made of.
String length, tension, and linear density are the factors I think.
Sorry...I worded that wrong. I meant that the material was the only thing that could affect whether or not the harmonics actually exist. All those things you listed only affect them if they even exist. The material would create them. Tension, length, etc. just modify them.
I ain't talking about no damn soundbox julios lol. You're confused. I mean the material of the STRING ITSELF. IE: steel, nylon, goat intestines, horse hair, whatever it is. This material in itself will have specific harmonics. All that shit you listed like string tension, density, whatever, they only modify the existing harmonics. It's the actual material of the string itself that allows these harmonics to exist. Fuck the soundhole sir
you've been phrasing your posts as if strings MIGHT have harmonics.
I'm trying to tell you they DO.
it is a natural property of them to have natural frequencies, and as you say, their material properties will determine the series of specific overtones.
but it's misleading to say that the properties will determine IF they exist at all.
remember, you were saying that HR.O was correct when he said this:
Hr.O wrote:iirc a single string in theory will not create harmonics.
But when fixed to a guitar body, it's not only the string that resonates. The interaction of the string(s) and the body is what causes most of the harmonics.
Hr.O is wrong. A single fixed string WILL create harmonics.
Fair enough. Maybe Hr.O was talking about some kinda crazy theoretical mathematical string made out of nothing that creates a pure tone. You don't think the material of the string itself enables the string to have overtones?
mrd wrote:Fair enough. Maybe Hr.O was talking about some kinda crazy theoretical mathematical string made out of nothing that creates a pure tone. You don't think the material of the string itself enables the string to have overtones?
the material of the string is what determines the series of overtones that the string will have.
It's like saying a tuning forks shape is what enables the fork to have a tone. More accurate to say that the shape determines the tone the fork emits.
Ultimately this may be a semantic issue.
A string's material properties determine what speed the waves travel through it. This doesn't change if you keep the string at the same tension/length etc.
You can calculate the overtone frequencies of a string if you know its length, and the speed at which waves travel through it.
[xeno]Julios wrote:Preparing for a lesson tomorrow - i'm tutoring a grade 11 physics student and high school physics has changed a lot in the 10 years i've been out of it.
I've taught myself a bit about fundamental frequencies, standing waves, resonant frequencies, and harmonics, and their relationships to each other from this page:
say you have a guitar string at a certain tension and certain length, and you pluck it.
Will you only elicit the fundamental frequency? Or will you elicit the fundamental frequency + a few harmonics simultaneously?
Would there be a way to elicit individual harmonics in isolation if you plucked it a certain way? What would that way be?
I know with a trumpet you can do it by altering the air pressure (I presume that's why you can get many pitches even though you only have three buttons).
(I know that you wouldn't need to isolate harmonic frequencies to play the guitar, since you can just alter the length - but my question is specifically a hypothetical one about a fixed string length and tension).
