Shotty gayness?

Post by **MidnightQ4** » Tue Oct 25, 2005 2:51 am

Is it just me, or does the shotgun sometimes just fail to register hits?

Often I see the spread pattern around the enemy but don't get any hit sounds or blood flying. Sometimes I swear there is just no pattern on the wall or anything. Doesn't happen that much, but enough to notice. Anyone else feeling this issue?

Post by **Wizard .3** » Tue Oct 25, 2005 2:54 am

Move closer.

Post by **dzjepp** » Tue Oct 25, 2005 2:56 am

The same thing happens in Q3. The Q3 shottie is notorious for missing a lot of shots. There was a thread here a long long time ago about peoples thoughts on what could be the cause, but I don't remember any of it anymore.

Post by **MidnightQ4** » Tue Oct 25, 2005 3:10 am

I figure it's got to be network lag. Although it happens even with my sub 20 ping to my server. I'm going to try setting the snap rate higher on the server so we'll see if that changes it or not.

Post by **dzjepp** » Tue Oct 25, 2005 3:11 am

No it's not lag, it's just the way it works (regarding physics)... sorry I don't have a more detailed answer though.

Post by **Don Carlos** » Tue Oct 25, 2005 5:26 am

blue had a famous problem in a cpl event with the q3 shotty

Post by **Grandpa Stu** » Tue Oct 25, 2005 5:35 am

haha i remember that tourney, it was scandalous!

oh and the rail is kinda buggy i've noticed too. sometimes i'll shoot and miss a guy. then my next shot i'll hit him and recieve an impressive even though i didn't get two consecutive shots. i've also had the problem of the rail firing off center of my crosshair whenever i'm zoomed in as well making it pointless to zoom.

Post by **Eraser** » Tue Oct 25, 2005 7:46 am

dzjepp, the thing with the Quake 3 shotgun was that the spread was calculated based on a random seed, but both server and each client used it's own seed, so the spread would look different for everyone. The actual spread that would register was the spread determined by the server. So for one player it might look like the shot missed and for another player it might look like the shot hit. The server might not have registerd the hit while the one pulling the trigger actually sees the hit register and hears the bleep feedback of the shot hiting.

I remember that there was a huge drama around some finale game in an important tournament where this caused a lot of confusion.

edit:
I should read other people's posts better. The tourney I'm referring too was indeed the CPL game with Blue.

Post by **Mogul** » Tue Oct 25, 2005 7:52 am

As far as I know, there is some kind of lag compensation going on. This could also be the cause of several percieved hits that are actually misses.

Post by **MidnightQ4** » Tue Oct 25, 2005 8:40 am

Eraser,

this sounds logical, but then how would one explain a medium range shotgun spread that should be dead on, yet none of the pellets hit? I mean even if the "spread" is random, you would think someone in the middle of any spread would take damage regardless if the actual spread on the server and the client are in agreement or not.

Post by **Eraser** » Tue Oct 25, 2005 8:51 am

yep that's probably not related to this issue then.

Post by **Oeloe** » Tue Oct 25, 2005 10:18 am

MidnightQ4 wrote:Eraser,

this sounds logical, but then how would one explain a medium range shotgun spread that should be dead on, yet none of the pellets hit? I mean even if the "spread" is random, you would think someone in the middle of any spread would take damage regardless if the actual spread on the server and the client are in agreement or not.

I don't think i've ever seen this.

The most annoying thing to me is that when i think fired a rocket or a rail just before i died (i already hear the sound), the rocket/rail isn't actually fired.

There is definitely no lag compensation in Q3 btw.

Post by **Freakaloin** » Tue Oct 25, 2005 3:10 pm

the shotty ownz...questions?...

Post by **dzjepp** » Tue Oct 25, 2005 4:10 pm

MidnightQ4 wrote:Eraser,

this sounds logical, but then how would one explain a medium range shotgun spread that should be dead on, yet none of the pellets hit? I mean even if the "spread" is random, you would think someone in the middle of any spread would take damage regardless if the actual spread on the server and the client are in agreement or not.

I've had this happen plenty of times in Q3. Dead-on shot, from relatively close, and all I saw where the pellet holes on the wall behind him. :/

Post by **dzjepp** » Tue Oct 25, 2005 4:11 pm

BTW, do you guys have a demo of that blue match in the tourney? I would very much like to see it!

Post by **dzjepp** » Wed Oct 26, 2005 1:37 am

Demo demo demo demo demo

Post by **shiznit** » Wed Oct 26, 2005 2:00 am

It's because the spread/pattern of the shot is always different.

Post by **MidnightQ4** » Thu Oct 27, 2005 2:42 am

Still, I don't see how the pattern would affect things. I mean it's not like 1 pellet on the side of the spread is hitting the guy, it looks as if the shot is dead center and he should take 80-100+ damage, and yet he takes apparently no damage and there is no hitsound or blood, but the wall behind shows the spread pattern. It seems to happen quite often for me, maybe 1/6 times. I know some ppl probably think I'm just missing, but I'm not talking about those times, I'm talking about when it is obvious that the guy was in the middle of the spread and still no hit occurred.

Post by **hemostick** » Thu Oct 27, 2005 9:25 am

Should we name this the Pulp Fiction Miracle Syndrome ?

Post by **Eraser** » Thu Oct 27, 2005 9:27 am

hemostick wrote:Should we name this the Pulp Fiction Miracle Syndrome ?

or the Winnfield syndrome

Post by **Oeloe** » Thu Oct 27, 2005 11:14 am

MidnightQ4 wrote:It seems to happen quite often for me, maybe 1/6 times.

There must be something going wrong either between you and the server or something with your client (renderer). I've honestly never seen anything like that happen (the opposite though in the Get Quaked 3 movie, SG frag of someone who appeared to be around the corner already).

Post by **MidnightQ4** » Thu Oct 27, 2005 1:26 pm

hmm, tonight I shot this one guy and it looked like the spread actually just went all around him but not on him. I suppose that could possibly be happening that there is sometimes a rather large hole in the middle of the pattern and it just all misses even though the shot was on target.

perhaps something could be done with some code changes to more or less guarentee that some pellets are close to the middle in the pattern?

Post by **Grudge** » Thu Oct 27, 2005 1:42 pm

It's simply just lag, haven't you ever had the railtrail go straight through someone, yet not actually getting a hit? Same thing.

Post by **Oeloe** » Thu Oct 27, 2005 2:27 pm

Grudge wrote:It's simply just lag, haven't you ever had the railtrail go straight through someone, yet not actually getting a hit? Same thing.

Yeah that's much more recognizable (SG pellets are invisible unless you're fairly close to a surface where they can impact).

Post by **Doomcore** » Thu Oct 27, 2005 11:42 pm

dzjepp wrote:The same thing happens in Q3. The Q3 shottie is notorious for missing a lot of shots. There was a thread here a long long time ago about peoples thoughts on what could be the cause, but I don't remember any of it anymore.

I noticed this long time ago when I was playing against bots and when I was playing online....