Pat Buchanan is the fucking man.

[Nightshade]

Full stop.

By Patrick J. Buchanan
© 2005 Creators Syndicate Inc.

In his 1935 State of the Union Address, FDR spoke to a nation mired in the Depression, but still marinated in conservative values:
"[C]ontinued dependence" upon welfare, said FDR, "induces a spiritual disintegration fundamentally destructive to the national fiber. To dole our relief in this way is to administer a narcotic, a subtle destroyer of the human spirit."
Behind FDR's statement was the conviction that, while the government must step in in an emergency, in normal times, men provide the food, clothing and shelter for their families.

And we did, until the war pulled us out of the Depression and a postwar boom made us, in John K. Galbraith's phrase, "The Affluent Society." By the 1960s, America, the richest country on earth, was growing ever more prosperous. But with the 1964 landslide of LBJ, liberalism triumphed and began its great experiment.
Behind the Great Society was a great idea: to lift America's poor out of poverty, government should now take care of all their basic needs. By giving the poor welfare, subsidized food, public housing and free medical care, government will end poverty in America.
At the Superdome and New Orleans Convention Center, we saw the failure of 40 years of the Great Society. No sooner had Katrina passed by and the 17th Street levee broke than hundreds of young men who should have taken charge in helping the aged, the sick and the women with babies to safety took to the streets to shoot, loot and rape. The New Orleans police, their numbers cut by deserters who left their posts to look after their families, engaged in running gun battles all day long to stay alive and protect people.
It was the character and conduct of its people that makes the New Orleans disaster unique. After a hurricane, people's needs are simple: food, water, shelter, medical attention. But they can be hard to meet. People buried in rubble or hiding in attics of flooded homes are tough to get to. But, even with the incompetence of the mayor and governor, and the torpor of federal officials, this was possible.
Coast Guard helicopters were operating Tuesday. There were roads open into the city for SUVs, buses and trucks. While New Orleans was flooded, the water was stagnant. People walked through to the convention center and Superdome. The flimsiest boat could navigate.
Even if government dithered for days - what else is new - this does not explain the failure of the people themselves.
Between 1865 and 1940, the South - having lost a fourth of its best and bravest in battle, devastated by war, mired in poverty - was famous for the hardy self-reliance of her people, black and white.
In 1940, hundreds of British fishermen and yachtsmen sailed back and forth daily under fire across a turbulent 23-mile Channel to rescue 300,000 soldiers from Dunkirk. How do we explain to the world that a tenth that number of Americans could not be reached in four days from across a stagnant pond?
The real disaster of Katrina was that society broke down. An entire community could not cope. Liberalism, the idea that good intentions and government programs can build a Great Society, was exposed as fraud. After trillions of tax dollars for welfare, food stamps, public housing, job training and education have poured out since 1965, poverty remains pandemic. But today, when the police vanish, the community disappears and men take to the streets to prey on women and the weak.
Stranded for days in a pool of fetid water, almost everyone waited for the government to come save them. They screamed into the cameras for help, and the reporters screamed into the cameras for help, and the "civil rights leaders" screamed into the cameras that Bush was responsible and Bush was a racist.
Americans were once famous for taking the initiative, for having young leaders rise up to take command in a crisis. See any of that at the Superdome? Sri Lankans and Indonesians, far poorer than we, did not behave like this in a tsunami that took 400 times as many lives as Katrina has thus far.
We are the descendants of men and women who braved the North Atlantic in wooden boats to build a country in a strange land. Our ancestors traveled thousands of miles in covered wagons, fighting off Indians far braver than those cowards preying on New Orleans' poor.

Watching that performance in the Crescent City, it seems clear: We are not the people our parents were. And what are all our Lords Temporal now howling for? Though government failed at every level, they want more government.
FDR was right. A "spiritual disintegration" has overtaken us. Government-as-first provider, the big idea of the Great Society, has proven to be "a narcotic, a subtle destroyer of the human spirit."
Either we get off this narcotic, or it kills us.

[o'dium]

[+JuggerNaut+]

is that the British answer to "Blues Clues"?

[hax103]

or perhaps his speechwriter is the man

I always wonder how many politicians write their own speeches. From their public addresses, it seems obvious that most of their stuff is repeated, canned, or just copied...

[dnoyc]

Full stop.

By Patrick J. Buchanan

he's right. i completely agree with everything in that statement.

[Dek]

[Hannibal]

Yeah, it's 'LIBERALISMSMSMS' fault. What the fuck else would you expect Pat to say? If anyone can actually find a cogent argument in that mess, they'll be my hero for life.

[R00k]

Well I think that is a steaming pile of black and white horseshit.

He is supporting a societal revolution based on generalities and half-truths.

Do you really believe that, if the welfare system had never existed, then New Orleans would have been a peaceful, tight-knit community of people helping each other out while it was 15 feet underwater for over a week?

Please.

I strongly agree with some of the statements he makes in that article, but the worldview he's putting forth in it and the conclusions he is drawing are completely irresponsible.

[Underpants?]

lol well you wanna know what I think? I think the words "sensitive," "socially conscious" and "humane" are acronyms for "fucking faggot."

[E:v:O]

I was way off the mark. I thought Pat Buchanan was a guy out of New Kids on the Block.
Turns out that was Donnie Wahlberg.

[Nightshade]

One of the biggest problems we have in this country is the fact that MANY people think that the world owes them something. When I look at the difference between those of my grandparents' generation and folks today, there is simply no comparison.
I would say that on the whole the number of people willing to break their asses to get ahead has declined greatly. Look at multi-generational welfare families, regardless of race. We're a nation of fat, lazy, selfish, stupid slobs.
And all the chaos didn't start in New Orleans after a week Rook, it started the first day.
I think that welfare is a good idea poorly executed, and it's due to many factors. People that live in abject poverty probably find it difficult to see an incentive to work, due to the cost of childcare, healthcare, all those things. The system doesn't make it easy to pull yourself up by your bootstraps, but it's still possible. I believe that people make the choice to be poor, not in all cases, but many of them. Of course, no one will admit to this, because Americans loathe personal responsibility.
By making the choice to be poor, I mean that people have kids too young, won't make the effort to go to college, etc. No one forces anyone to have kids, and there's plenty of ways to fund an education. I've heard enough rags to riches stories to know it's possible. Sometimes a Herculean effort, but possible.
It's hard to address a large issue such as "spiritual degeneration", but how else does one explain it?

[SplishSplash]

You know, a case could be made that America's extreme crime and murder rate is in direct connection with the extreme poverty of some Americans.

[hate]

mo' kids=mo' money

[Underpants?]

LOL listen to Leonardo over here: an expert on "extreme poverty" in America...

[Nightshade]

I don't think you'd have to stretch too far to make that argument, Splish.
My point is that there are ways for people to rise above circumstances like that, and a welfare state conditions people not to do so. Then you can sit around on your fat ass and blame The Man for all your troubles.

[hate]

You know, a case could be made that America's extreme crime and murder rate is in direct connection with the extreme poverty of some Americans.

fucking genious

your hair needs color hun

[Geebs]

South Africa's is much worse.

[Nightshade]

Hell, I'll ask an even more inflammatory question. Would what happened in New Orleans have happened in a predominantly white community? Has it in the past? We've got the Watts riots in '68, the Rodney King riots, and now New Orleans.
Can anyone point to a similar example in a white community? I'm not trying to say anything by this, I'm genuinely curious.

[SplishSplash]

I'm just saying that yes, people will help themselves, but they may do it by resorting to violence.

And NS:
It's clearly only the dark negro soul that is susceptible to riot fever.

[Hannibal]

One of the biggest problems we have in this country is the fact that MANY people think that the world owes them something.

The world in which our grandparents grew up is long fucking dead my friend.

edit: LOL @ negro soul

[dnoyc]

One of the biggest problems we have in this country is the fact that MANY people think that the world owes them something. When I look at the difference between those of my grandparents' generation and folks today, there is simply no comparison.
I would say that on the whole the number of people willing to break their asses to get ahead has declined greatly. Look at multi-generational welfare families, regardless of race. We're a nation of fat, lazy, selfish, stupid slobs.
And all the chaos didn't start in New Orleans after a week Rook, it started the first day.
I think that welfare is a good idea poorly executed, and it's due to many factors. People that live in abject poverty probably find it difficult to see an incentive to work, due to the cost of childcare, healthcare, all those things. The system doesn't make it easy to pull yourself up by your bootstraps, but it's still possible. I believe that people make the choice to be poor, not in all cases, but many of them. Of course, no one will admit to this, because Americans loathe personal responsibility.
By making the choice to be poor, I mean that people have kids too young, won't make the effort to go to college, etc. No one forces anyone to have kids, and there's plenty of ways to fund an education. I've heard enough rags to riches stories to know it's possible. Sometimes a Herculean effort, but possible.
It's hard to address a large issue such as "spiritual degeneration", but how else does one explain it?

i agree with most of that, except for welfare being a good idea. if you're poor in this country you don't really deserve any help. welfare should be reserved for people with disabilities, and lazy is not a disability.

[R00k]

One of the biggest problems we have in this country is the fact that MANY people think that the world owes them something. When I look at the difference between those of my grandparents' generation and folks today, there is simply no comparison.
I would say that on the whole the number of people willing to break their asses to get ahead has declined greatly. Look at multi-generational welfare families, regardless of race. We're a nation of fat, lazy, selfish, stupid slobs.
And all the chaos didn't start in New Orleans after a week Rook, it started the first day.
I think that welfare is a good idea poorly executed, and it's due to many factors. People that live in abject poverty probably find it difficult to see an incentive to work, due to the cost of childcare, healthcare, all those things. The system doesn't make it easy to pull yourself up by your bootstraps, but it's still possible. I believe that people make the choice to be poor, not in all cases, but many of them. Of course, no one will admit to this, because Americans loathe personal responsibility.
By making the choice to be poor, I mean that people have kids too young, won't make the effort to go to college, etc. No one forces anyone to have kids, and there's plenty of ways to fund an education. I've heard enough rags to riches stories to know it's possible. Sometimes a Herculean effort, but possible.
It's hard to address a large issue such as "spiritual degeneration", but how else does one explain it?

I think of welfare as helping people who are trying to help themselves.
Like you said though, that's not the way it is implemented. But that doesn't mean the entire idea is at fault for our problems as a society.

But really, do you think there wouldn't have been a bunch of people who reacted that way before the New Deal era?

I think there might not have been as many, but there would definitely have been some, in a city the size of New Orleans.

Now don't get me wrong -- I think a government-subsidized ghetto is going to produce handout-loving criminals with no sense of responsibility because they've never had to buy or own anything to be proud of.

But that still doesn't mean the mess in New Orleans was due to the principle of helping those in need - which is exactly what Robertson is saying here.

[Nightshade]

It's Buchanan, btw, not that psycho holy-roller Pat Robertson.
I believe that the connection he's trying to make is a bit abstract, but valid. We have conditioned the poor(not all of them, mind you. I hate generalizations, sometimes they're unavoidable) in this country to be opportunistic and lazy, depending on government handouts for everything. It's a process that's instilled a HUGE sense of self-entitlement in poor people. It's the "I'm gonna get mine" mentality.
I don't have the answers to all of this, and it's something I want to give some thought.

[Underpants?]

@NS, how's this for irony, a white working class riot partly related to an abolition issue back in mid-19th century America
Credible Link!
"In the month preceding the July 1863 lottery, in a pattern similar to the 1834 anti-abolition riots, antiwar newspaper editors published inflammatory attacks on the draft law aimed at inciting the white working class. They criticized the federal government's intrusion into local affairs on behalf of the "nigger war." Democratic Party leaders raised the specter of a New York deluged with southern blacks in the aftermath of the Emancipation Proclamation. White workers compared their value unfavorably to that of southern slaves, stating that "[we] are sold for $300 [the price of exemption from war service] whilst they pay $1000 for negroes." In the midst of war-time economic distress, they believed that their political leverage and economic status was rapidly declining as blacks appeared to be gaining power. On Saturday, July 11, 1863, the first lottery of the conscription law was held. For twenty-four hours the city remained quiet. On Monday, July 13, 1863, between 6 and 7 A.M., the five days of mayhem and bloodshed that would be known as the Civil War Draft Riots began."

[HM-PuFFNSTuFF]

What a load of bullshit from Buchanan. Jesus. Y'know there have been ultra rich conservatives trying to dismantle the social safety net in America ever since it's first pieces were being created. Bush and crew have done much to fufill that vision.