We had to kill our patients

Post by **seremtan** » Mon Sep 12, 2005 2:43 pm

http://www.informationclearinghouse.inf ... e10249.htm

Doctors working in hurricane-ravaged New Orleans killed critically ill patients rather than leaving them to die in agony as they evacuated hospitals, The Mail on Sunday can reveal.

With gangs of rapists and looters rampaging through wards in the flooded city, senior doctors took the harrowing decision to give massive overdoses of morphine to those they believed could not make it out alive.

In an extraordinary interview with The Mail on Sunday, one New Orleans doctor told how she 'prayed for God to have mercy on her soul' after she ignored every tenet of medical ethics and ended the lives of patients she had earlier fought to save.

Her heart-rending account has been corroborated by a hospital orderly and by local government officials. One emergency official, William 'Forest' McQueen, said: "Those who had no chance of making it were given a lot of morphine and lain down in a dark place to die."

fucking hell :icon28:

Post by **4days** » Mon Sep 12, 2005 2:48 pm

anyone see this one btw?

http://in.rediff.com/news/2005/sep/05china.htm

Post by **reefsurfer** » Mon Sep 12, 2005 2:49 pm

Horrible decesion...

Post by **phantasmagoria** » Mon Sep 12, 2005 2:49 pm

I approve of that.

Post by **Mr.Magnetichead** » Mon Sep 12, 2005 2:49 pm

Oh lordy, I bet the religious right are going to have a field day with this.

Post by **saturn** » Mon Sep 12, 2005 3:03 pm

Post by **SplishSplash** » Mon Sep 12, 2005 3:08 pm

saturn wrote:wow

I saw your name as last post and was totally hoping for some story like "Yeah, tough decision, I had to do this back when... yada yada".

But you've let me down

Post by **Don Carlos** » Mon Sep 12, 2005 3:09 pm

phantasmagoria wrote:I approve of that.

w3rd

Post by **saturn** » Mon Sep 12, 2005 3:10 pm

I still have 5 years of specialisation left in anesthesiology. There will be plenty of stories when I'm finished.

Post by **Canis** » Mon Sep 12, 2005 3:19 pm

phantasmagoria wrote:I approve of that.

Me too. I think it's by far the better of two evils. I'd not blame the doctor one bit if one of the patients was a loved one of mine, even if I thought there might have been some chance had the doctor done something else. It's just too unfortunate and I believe the doctor did a very courageous and bold thing.

And Saturn, Anesthesiology?!? I'm thinking you're going to be the next Kevorkian.

Post by **R00k** » Mon Sep 12, 2005 3:52 pm

Yea I read about that this morning.

Christ, what an awful decision to have to make. But a much better alternative to drowning in a hospital bed, or being raped or something equally as sick.

Post by **Iccy (temp)** » Mon Sep 12, 2005 5:02 pm

Hmm die from drowning rape or being crushed in a falling building, or a over dose of morphine.

Tough choice ...

Post by **+JuggerNaut+** » Mon Sep 12, 2005 5:14 pm

not really

Post by **Iccy (temp)** » Mon Sep 12, 2005 5:19 pm

Fuck man i dont need threat of any of those things to consider death by morphine..

Post by **[xeno]Julios** » Mon Sep 12, 2005 5:29 pm

Canis wrote:
Me too. I think it's by far the better of two evils. I'd not blame the doctor one bit if one of the patients was a loved one of mine, even if I thought there might have been some chance had the doctor done something else. It's just too unfortunate and I believe the doctor did a very courageous and bold thing.

my thoughts exactly.

Post by **seremtan** » Mon Sep 12, 2005 5:37 pm

4days wrote:anyone see this one btw?

http://in.rediff.com/news/2005/sep/05china.htm

oddly enough, this hasn't been on the front pages. then only landslide mentioned on the BBC's site is "Koizumi secures landslide victory"

Post by **saturn** » Mon Sep 12, 2005 7:34 pm

Canis wrote:
And Saturn, Anesthesiology?!? I'm thinking you're going to be the next Kevorkian.

:/

Post by **shiznit** » Mon Sep 12, 2005 7:59 pm

They will get some serious heat after this but if they really couldn't do anything then perhaps it was better to kill them off like that then for them to drown or die of dehydration.

Post by **Denz** » Mon Sep 12, 2005 8:29 pm

I don't believe it for one second.

Post by **Nightshade** » Mon Sep 12, 2005 8:53 pm

Why not?

Post by **mjrpes** » Mon Sep 12, 2005 9:01 pm

That's a big decision to make. It does go against one of the main tenets of the Hypocratic Oath that all doctors take. It's because of that tenet, that when doctors let vegetables like Terri Shrivo die they just 'pull the plug' and do not administer morphine. It's also why inmates on death row are injected with drugs by jail staff and not doctors, although a doctor is around to pronounce the inmate dead. In fact, this is one of the criticisms against lethal injection, since there is a greater chance that the drugs will be incorrectly injected since it is not being done by a professional.

Post by **[xeno]Julios** » Mon Sep 12, 2005 9:05 pm

mjrpes wrote:That's a big decision to make. It does go against one of the main tenets of the Hypocratic Oath that all doctors take. It's because of that tenet, that when doctors let vegetables like Terri Shrivo die they just 'pull the plug' and do not administer morphine.

depends on how you define "action" vs "inaction". If the oath is not to harm, then one could argue that pulling a plug and letting a patient starve to death is doing more harm than administering morphine.

Same applies to this situation.

The distinction between action and inaction is, in many cases, arbitrary - they both involve decisions with consequences.

Post by **hate** » Mon Sep 12, 2005 9:08 pm

wrong THE 'Hippocratic Oath' is an option

and not a requirement

Post by **werldhed** » Mon Sep 12, 2005 9:22 pm

hate wrote:wrong THE 'Hippocratic Oath' is an option

and not a requirement

This is true. In some places, at least.

And what's with "ignored every tenet of medical ethics"? I can't really see how they had any better option. Had they left them to die, it would be a violation of the "Do good" part of the H. oath.

Post by **mjrpes** » Mon Sep 12, 2005 9:30 pm

hate wrote:wrong THE 'Hippocratic Oath' is an option

and not a requirement

I would guess that a large majority of doctors take it. Or else wouldn't it be easy for a prison to find a doctor to administer a lethal injection? I do admit I know shit about the subject beyond what I read in a wikipedia article on lethal injection.